well, what came out at the inquiry today was an agreement between hugo keith and bofis agreement betweeneith and boris johnson that herd immunity certainly didn't work that by july of 2020, only about 6 to 7% of people had antibodies. so therefore it had been infected . therefore it had been infected. so herd immunity wasn't the answer. so, yes, you're right. the science did keep changing . the science did keep changing. i'm not sure it had been terribly helpful to us all for the scientists to have come forward and said actually, we don't know what we're doing, but clearly they didn't know what they doing and what the they were doing and what the covid inquiry is about is see if you can improve that process in case of a future pandemic. >> we've had a day of a two day evidence session from the former prime minister, not once that i heard has the barrister said to the former prime minister, what lessons have you learned upon lots of time to reflect on it. surely that's part of the process . pi'ocess. >> process. >> yeah, and i thought that that's actually what boris johnson did. that was

it's a really interesting question, tom, because hugo keith is certainly a sort of on the attack.out precisely to what extent that's simply his loyal way of speaking and to what extent it is a sort of he doesn't like the cut of boris johnson's jib, if you like. i would say that today, more than yesterday, it does seem as though hugo keith is trying to understand exactly what boris johnson's thoughts were at the time and is trying to sort of get a grip of the wider picture. there have been a couple of times, interestingly, when boris johnson has finished off keith's questions for him and there has been a lot less talking over each other from the pair of them, i think perhaps there might have been some sort of intervention from from lady hallett about that. the line of questioning from hugo keith is certainly very much more still about the exact timings of when national lockdowns were introduced. and there hasn't been very much discussion about the sort of broader issue of whether repeated national lockdowns were the right strategy. given what we know in hindsight about the effects

well, what came out at the inquiry today was an agreement between hugo keith and bofis agreement betweenth and boris johnson that herd immunity certainly didn't work that by july of 2020, only about 6 to 7% of people had antibodies. so therefore it had been infected . therefore it had been infected. so herd immunity wasn't the answer. so, yes, you're right. the science did keep changing . the science did keep changing. i'm not sure it had been terribly helpful to us all for the scientists to have come forward and said actually, we don't know what we're doing, but clearly they didn't know what they doing and what the they were doing and what the covid inquiry is about is see if you can improve that process in case of a future pandemic. >> we've had a day of a two day evidence session from the former prime minister, not once that i heard has the barrister said to the former prime minister, what lessons have you learned upon lots of time to reflect on it. surely that's part of the process . pi'ocess. >> process. >> yeah, and i thought that that's actually what boris johnson did. that was i

not so much about collating emissions, i'm feeling hugo keith| days?ough with his questioning. he is letting things go and carrying on. there was a marked difference _ and carrying on. there was a marked difference when pete weatherly was questioning johnson and really bushing — questioning johnson and really pushing him to look in detail and acknowledge and he got the answer is that he _ acknowledge and he got the answer is that he wanted. it was a different kind of— that he wanted. it was a different kind of feel and it's again very frustrating for us as court participants that we are not allowed to cross _ participants that we are not allowed to cross examine and question more and that— to cross examine and question more and that we — to cross examine and question more and that we are not up on the stand more _ and that we are not up on the stand more as— and that we are not up on the stand more as witnesses because we know what happened on the ground and actually— what happened on the ground and actually that matters and it should inform _ actually

the hugo keith kc sort of started his piece by saying, look how bad britain is.nclusion , ignoring the his conclusion, ignoring the fact that according to the data that i've been looking at this morning from our world in data, a very respect rooted institution, italy, portugal, spain, many other western european countries have higher accumulated death tolls. what doesit accumulated death tolls. what does it tell you that the covid inquiry lawyer is starting from this position , starting to say this position, starting to say that britain is oh, so bad ? that britain is oh, so bad? >> yes. and this mean i've felt quite bad doing it. i tweeted that this was quasi religious because think it is quasi religious. and then i felt slightly better because i got a whatsapp from a fellow barrister who is no fan boris johnson, who is no fan of boris johnson, who is no fan of boris johnson, who absolutely outraged at who was absolutely outraged at the lack independence the total lack of independence and objectivity. appears to and objectivity. that appears to be . he appears t

we have seen hugo keith casey, getting into the nitty—gritty of many of his witnesses. —— hugo keithkely to be asked. it's not necessarily going to play to his strengths, is it, as you say, that maybe he is sort of known and loved for? ., ., �* ~ ., , ., loved for? yeah, i don't know if you remember — loved for? yeah, i don't know if you remember the _ loved for? yeah, i don't know if you remember the liaison _ loved for? yeah, i don't know if you remember the liaison committee i loved for? yeah, i don't know if you i remember the liaison committee where borisjohnson got grilled for hours by mps on whether he had misled parliament. by mps on whether he had misled parliament-— by mps on whether he had misled parliament. by mps on whether he had misled i parliament-_ it parliament. that was in two days! it wasn't, it parliament. that was in two days! it wasn't. it was _ parliament. that was in two days! it wasn't, it was several hours - parliament. that was in two days! it wasn't, it was several hours and i wasn't, it was several hours and over time, you saw borisjohnson start to crack

and, early, another key aspect was questioning from the league counsel hugo keith about the prime minister'se. you will remember _ is a bit about that exchange. ym. will remember right at the start of this part of the inquiry, in fact, going back months before that, there was a lot of toing and froing about what private whatsapp messages would be made available. there were a number of whatsapp messages from rishi sunak that were not made available, he explained again today that he had used multiple phones and you didn't have access to any of those messages and it was simply a technicality, certainly wanting to shed any issue of there being any kind of cover—up. i think we can hear a clip from that part of the inquiry now. hear a clip from that part of the inquiry nova— hear a clip from that part of the inuui now. ., , ., i. inquiry now. your phone, you said, doesnt inquiry now. your phone, you said, doesn't retain _ inquiry now. your phone, you said, doesn't retain an _ inquiry now. your phone, you said, doesn't retain an order— inquiry now. your phone, you said, doesn't retain an order you

the kc hugo keith.e's acting like a sort of like a journalist in the most sort of just grungy little way, just digging and niggling away what they're not asking the simple, impartial, independent questions . and it's actually questions. and it's actually incredibly simple . what was the incredibly simple. what was the data that you were presented with, as you've just touched on, was lockdown the right thing to do or not? if it was the right thing to do, was the timing right or not? those are the simple answers. right or not? those are the simple answers . and then you simple answers. and then you look at when we have come look at when should we have come out the lessons you out and what are the lessons you learn that? it's in learn from that? it's in credibly simple. this thing is going years and years going to take years and years and here's what's going on. go live. the former prime live. and the former prime minister boris johnson, talking about origin of the virus. about the origin of the virus. tha

however, he played down suggestions by hugo keith kc that severe, inefficient cases in downing street had led to a chaotic style of governance . chaotic style of governance. >> were you aware , sir, that his >> were you aware, sir, that his closest advisers had seemingly unanimously taken the view that there was a lack of efficiency ? there was a lack of efficiency? the has described privately as brutal and useless or criminally incompetent or operationally chaotic? >> the fact that there was debate and that people were passionate about it and they had different points of view is, i think, a unsurprising and be good because it would be worse if we were having this conversation and all the commentary was, well , there was commentary was, well, there was no debate about any of this whatsoever, and it was all just signed off straightforward. someone paper , someone put a piece of paper, someone checked, was someone checked, and that was the it. think someone checked, and that was the would it. think someone checked, and that was the would actually it. think someone checked, and that was

an apology to those who'd lost their loved ones, but he played down suggestions by lead counsel hugo keithere you aware that his closest advisers had seemingly unanimously taken the view that there was a lack of efficiency ? efficiency? >> see, the administration has described privately as brutal and useless or criminally incompetent or operationally chaotic . chaotic. >> the fact that there was debate and that people were passionate about it and they had different points of view is, i think, a unsurprising and be good because it would be worse if we were having this conversation and all the commentary was, well, there was no debate about any this no debate about any of this whatsoever . it was all just whatsoever. it was all just signed off, straightforward. someone put of paper , someone put a piece of paper, someone checked, and that was the of it. i think the last we heard of it. i think that actually far that would actually be far worse, frankly. so it's worse, quite frankly. so it's good was about good that there was debate about these things . these things. >> rishi sunak the prime

. | hugo keith picked him up i at the very beginning and said, "you've written in your statement thathat happened i and that the mistakes were made." "what were those mistakes?" the most extraordinary thing that happened yesterday i was boris couldn't bring himself to list those mistakes, - and he foundered around about... devolution! devolution, yeah. two minutes in. yeah, two minutes in. and to levelling up! and that goes to the heart i of the detail thing with boris. he's had months to prepare for this. now, he could have just been| avoiding it because he doesn't want to admit he's made mistakes, but it could be that he'd never thought of it in that order. i it's a logical question, i and you would have thought he would have been able to answer it logically at the beginning. _ and then, chris, rishi sunak has got like a sort of comically stressful week next week, hasn't he? because he's going to the inquiry on monday, and then there's this rwanda vote on tuesday. as i sat in the press conference with the prime minister this morning, i was thinking, hang on a minute, just down the r

however, he played down suggestions by lead counsel hugo keith, kc that severe inefficiencies in downing street had to led a chaotic style of governance . s and the style of governance. s and the prime minister also blamed government borrowing during lockdown for record high taxes. now he told the inquiry the economic impact of paying it backis economic impact of paying it back is only now being felt by taxpayers . it comes as new data taxpayers. it comes as new data shows property taxes are among the highest in the uk across the developed world, with the office for budget responsibility signalling further hikes are on the way . now the government is the way. now the government is offering a financial package which it says is worth £2.5 billion to support the return of devolution to stormont in northern ireland it would include a lump sum to settle pubuc include a lump sum to settle public sector pay claims and a new needs based funding formula for public services. but the sinn fein vice president, michelle o'neill , says the offer michelle o'neill, says the offer doesn't touch the surfa

. >> the inquiry's lawyer , hugo >> the inquiry's lawyer, hugo keith, kc, also asked mr johnson, is ifovernment had acted sooner and woken up to the true nature of the crisis earlier and had posed impose social distancing measures earlier , then could that stay at earlier, then could that stay at home order have been avoided and bofis home order have been avoided and boris johnson replied and said , boris johnson replied and said, i doubt it, but i don't know. i'm not certain we would have been able to have avoided extreme action by acting a few days earlier. it's been quite a long day for him so far. he's due to give evidence again tomorrow. what was interesting ring a little earlier as well was that he did appear to be getting emotional when he talked about the pandemic, the many, many lives that were lost in 2020. just watch this and see what you think . what you think. >> we have to be realistic about 2020, the whole year , that 2020, the whole year, that a whole tragic, tragic year. we did lockdown . but then it did lockdown. but then it bounced back after we'd unlocked i >> -- >>

of timing is tomorrow, there will be more questions from the main lead counsel to the inquiry, hugo keith tomorrow, and boris johnson will go home presumably and do more homework tonight as he prepares for tomorrow. back do more homework tonight as he prepares for tomorrow.— do more homework tonight as he prepares for tomorrow. back to you. most brits have _ prepares for tomorrow. back to you. most brits have emerged _ prepares for tomorrow. back to you. most brits have emerged in - prepares for tomorrow. back to you. most brits have emerged in the - prepares for tomorrow. back to you. i most brits have emerged in the uk's conservative party of a prime minister rishi sunak�*s flagship rwanda legislation. home secretary james cleverly signed a new treaty with rwanda yesterday after the supreme court found previous plans were unlawful. today the former home secretary suella braverman told the house of commons that the party faces what she called electoral oblivion in a matter of months if they introduce emergency rwanda legislation which is destined to fail. ht legislation which is destined

apology to those who'd lost their loved ones to covid, but he played down suggestions by lead counsel hugo keith, kc that severe inefficiencies in downing street had led to a chaotic style of governance . and the prime governance. and the prime minister also blamed the government borrowing during lockdown for record high taxes . lockdown for record high taxes. he told the inquiry the economic impact of paying it back is only now being felt by taxpayers as it comes as new data shows property taxes in the uk are among the highest across the developed world. with the office for budget responsibility signalling more may be on the way . the defence secretary has way. the defence secretary has said today. securing the seas is the only way to defeat russia's president putin as he announced a new maritime coalition alongside norway. two royal navy hunter minehunter ships will be transferred to ukraine as part of efforts to bolster the country's defence capability . country's defence capability. it'll deliver long term support, according to the mod , including according to the mod, including training equ

apology to those who'd lost their loved ones to covid, but he played down suggestions by lead counsel hugo keith, kc that severe inefficiencies in downing street had led to a chaotic style of governance . and the prime governance. and the prime minister also blamed the government borrowing during lockdown for record high taxes . lockdown for record high taxes. he told the inquiry the economic impact of paying it back is only now being felt by taxpayers as it comes as new data shows property taxes in the uk are among the highest across the developed world. with the office for budget responsibility signalling more may be on the way . the defence secretary has way. the defence secretary has said today. securing the seas is the only way to defeat russia's president putin as he announced a new maritime coalition alongside norway. two royal navy hunter minehunter ships will be transferred to ukraine as part of efforts to bolster the country's defence capability . country's defence capability. it'll deliver long term support, according to the mod , including according to the mod, including training equ

but he played down suggestions by lead counsel hugo keith kc that severe inefficiencies in downing streetad led to a chaotic style of governance at the time. well he was also blaming the government, borrowing during lockdown for record high taxes . lockdown for record high taxes. now, he told the inquiry the economic impact of paying it backis economic impact of paying it back is only now being felt by taxpayers. it comes as new data shows property taxes in the uk are among the highest across the developed world, with the obr signalling further hikes will come . the defence secretary come. the defence secretary today said securing the seas was the only way to defeat russia's president putin as he announced a new maritime coalition alongside norway. two royal navy mine hunter ships will be transferred to ukraine as part of efforts to bolster the country's defence capability . country's defence capability. it'll deliver long term support, including training , equipment including training, equipment and infrastructure to boost security in the region . and the security in the region. and the

suzanne go it's hugo, keith, kc , the >> so it's hugo, keith, kc, the lawyer who's leading the covidot one line, and that's try completely and that's to try and completely ignore the catastrophic damage lockdowns rather quickly. lockdowns did rather quickly. >> sir keir starmer, mp you know, he says that this is a gimmick, but he's never voted in favour of stricter measures to improve the asylum system. he's opposed times and he's opposed them 14 times and he's abstained 22 times. >> ivan, the president of the turkish football club who smashed the referee in the face. >> i mean, that is got to be the story of the year. i would expect a president of a club to do such a terrible thing. broke his eye socket. i mean, it is unbelievable. >> absolutely unbelievable . >> absolutely unbelievable. well, i am going to go to keir starmer, though, of course. but there we go. so sorry to see you , jack carson. look, thank you very everybody very much, everybody, for watching, listening, watching, for listening, for tuning in. if you've missed anything, go and watch it anything, go back and watch

suzanne go it's hugo, keith, kc , the >> so it's hugo, keith, kc, the lawyer who's leading the covid one line, and that's try completely and that's to try and completely ignore the catastrophic damage lockdowns rather quickly. lockdowns did rather quickly. >> sir keir starmer, mp you know, he says that this is a gimmick, but he's never voted in favour of stricter measures to improve the asylum system. he's opposed times and he's opposed them 14 times and he's abstained 22 times. >> ivan, the president of the turkish football club who smashed the referee in the face. >> i mean, that is got to be the story of the year. i would expect a president of a club to do such a terrible thing. broke his eye socket. i mean, it is unbelievable. >> absolutely unbelievable . >> absolutely unbelievable. well, i am going to go to keir starmer, though, of course. but there we go. so sorry to see you , jack carson. look, thank you very everybody very much, everybody, for watching, listening, watching, for listening, for tuning in. if you've missed anything, go and watch it anything, go back and watch it

but hugo keith, kc year as well. seen grilling boris johnson people have gone to the mail, have gone to his website and looked at how he describes himself and he describes himself as a top performer, as a as a top performer, as having a galaxy brain . very, galaxy sized brain. very, really, really, very website . on really, really, very website. on his own website. he's incredibly, incredibly sort of full himself. and people will full of himself. and people will have noticed if they've been watching inquiry have noticed if they've been watchin seem inquiry have noticed if they've been watchin seem to inquiry have noticed if they've been watchin seem to i inquiry have noticed if they've been watchin seem to i mean,/ doesn't seem to i mean, obviously it's about the whole pandemic, but it covers almost everything. it seems to cover a lot of the obsessions of the political class. so, you know, bofis political class. so, you know, boris johnson was being grilled on the gender balance of his team, whereas when he tried to r

we've had another day of questions to the prime minister boris johnson, at the covid inquiry by hugo keith barrister that i touched on yesterday . i that i touched on yesterday. i wasn't very happy yesterday with the line of his questions. wasn't very happy yesterday with the line of his questions . and the line of his questions. and was it a good use of his time? well today we learnt about more questions about partygate, more questions about partygate, more questions about partygate, more questions about how advisable it was for dominic cummings to go to barnard castle . we had more to barnard castle. we had more questions about some of the words he wrote on notes completely irrelevant , in my completely irrelevant, in my view, to the terms of reference of the inquiry. what are the lessons learnt ? how were lessons learnt? how were decisions made and delighted to be joined in the studio? alex crowley you know boris johnson well. you were a former political adviser to him when he was prime minister and mayor of mayor of london previously . he mayor of london previously. he looked frustrate

but he played down suggestions by lead counsel hugo keith kc that severe inefficiencies in downing street had led to a chaotic style of governance. were you aware that his closest advisers had seemingly unanimously taken the view that there was a lack of efficiency ? efficiency? >> the administration is described privately as brutal and useless or criminally incompetent or operationally chaotic . chaotic. >> the fact that there was debate and that people were passionate about it and they had different points of view is, i think, a unsurprising thing. and be good because it would be worse if we were having this conversation and all the commentary was, well, there was no debate about any of this whatsoever. it was all just signed off, straightforward . signed off, straightforward. someone put a piece of paper, someone that someone checked, and that was the we of it. i think the last we heard of it. i think that would actually be far worse, frankly. so it's worse, quite frankly. so it's good was debate about good that there was debate about these things. >> well, the prime minister has also

inquiry inquisition at the covid inquiry in which, among other things, the following claim from hugo keithe evidence keith kc was made the evidence before milady is that the united kingdom had one of the highest rates of excess death in in europe. >> all almost all other western european countries had a lower level of excess death. i've seen italy was tragically in a worse position than the united kingdom. so did the uk have the worst excess deaths in europe except for italy? >> well , if we look at excess >> well, if we look at excess deaths per 100,000 compared with 2015 to 2019 averages, european countries in the oecd with higher excess deaths than the united kingdom were. austria, spain, the netherlands, germany, italy , portugal, hungary, italy, portugal, hungary, slovenia , estonia, latvia, slovenia, estonia, latvia, lithuania , greece, the czech lithuania, greece, the czech republic, slovakia and poland. it really does seem if this keith fellow is in, not in a search for truth, but in a search for truth, but in a search for truth, but in a search for scapegoats crucial really practi

than it and was hardly challenged it did and was hardly challenged by keith kc my next guest by hugo keithrutal and disproportionate, and as the days, weeks and months go by, he continues to be vindicated. well, joined by one of the few voices who spoke out against lockdown, the oncologist and one of the world's leading authorities cancer, karol authorities on cancer, karol sikora. thank you much for sikora. thank you very much for joining me when everybody was advocating lockdowns, what what was it in your understanding of the facts that made you sceptical ? sceptical? >> i think it was one evening about 8:00 at night. i was phoned up by a patient of mine who said the chemotherapy for high risk breast cancer had been stopped mid—course because of covid. and i said, well, have you been infected? is that the problem? they don't want to tell you because you have the virus. no, they're just not doing no, no. they're just not doing anybody. horrified. anybody. and i was horrified. i contacted and indeed got the contacted nhs and indeed got the next day the missive that said to do exactly that.

we've had another day of questions to the prime minister boris johnson, at the covid inquiry by hugo keithster that i touched on yesterday . i that i touched on yesterday. i wasn't very happy yesterday with the line of his questions. wasn't very happy yesterday with the line of his questions . and the line of his questions. and was it a good use of his time? well today we learnt about more questions about partygate, more questions about partygate, more questions about partygate, more questions about how advisable it was for dominic cummings to go to barnard castle . we had more to barnard castle. we had more questions about some of the words he wrote on notes completely irrelevant , in my completely irrelevant, in my view, to the terms of reference of the inquiry. what are the lessons learnt ? how were lessons learnt? how were decisions made and delighted to be joined in the studio? alex crowley you know boris johnson well. you were a former political adviser to him when he was prime minister and mayor of mayor of london previously . he mayor of london previously. he looked frustrated a co

than it and was hardly challenged it did and was hardly challenged by keith kc my next guest by hugo keithrutal and disproportionate, and as the days, weeks and months go by, he continues to be vindicated. well, joined by one of the few voices who spoke out against lockdown, the oncologist and one of the world's leading authorities cancer, karol authorities on cancer, karol sikora. thank you much for sikora. thank you very much for joining me when everybody was advocating lockdowns, what what was it in your understanding of the facts that made you sceptical ? sceptical? >> i think it was one evening about 8:00 at night. i was phoned up by a patient of mine who said the chemotherapy for high risk breast cancer had been stopped mid—course because of covid. and i said, well, have you been infected? is that the problem? they don't want to tell you because you have the virus. no, they're just not doing no, no. they're just not doing anybody. horrified. anybody. and i was horrified. i contacted and indeed got the contacted nhs and indeed got the next day the missive that said to do exactly that.

but but he played down suggestions by lead counsel hugo keith kc that severe initial cases in downingstreet had led to a chaotic style of governance and the prime minister also blamed government borrowing during lockdown for record high taxes. now he told the covid inquiry the economic impact of paying it backis the economic impact of paying it back is only now being felt by taxpayers. it comes as new data shows property taxes in the uk are among the highest across the developed world, with the office for budget responsibility signalling further hikes will come . now the defence secretary come. now the defence secretary says securing the seas is the only way to defeat russia's president putin, as he announced a new maritime coalition alongside norway. two royal navy minehunter ships will be transferred to ukraine as part of efforts to bolster the country's defence capability . country's defence capability. the mod says it will deliver long term support, including training, equipment and infrastructure , to boost infrastructure, to boost security in the black sea . now security in the

but but he played down suggestions by lead counsel hugo keith kc that severe initial cases in downingstreet had led to a chaotic style of governance and the prime minister also blamed government borrowing during lockdown for record high taxes. now he told the covid inquiry the economic impact of paying it backis the economic impact of paying it back is only now being felt by taxpayers. it comes as new data shows property taxes in the uk are among the highest across the developed world, with the office for budget responsibility signalling further hikes will come . now the defence secretary come. now the defence secretary says securing the seas is the only way to defeat russia's president putin, as he announced a new maritime coalition alongside norway. two royal navy minehunter ships will be transferred to ukraine as part of efforts to bolster the country's defence capability . country's defence capability. the mod says it will deliver long term support, including training, equipment and infrastructure , to boost infrastructure, to boost security in the black sea . now security in the

however, he played down suggestions by lead counsel hugo keith, kc that severe inefficiencies in downing street had to led a chaotic style of governance . s and the style of governance. s and the prime minister also blamed government borrowing during lockdown for record high taxes. now he told the inquiry the economic impact of paying it backis economic impact of paying it back is only now being felt by taxpayers . it comes as new data taxpayers. it comes as new data shows property taxes are among the highest in the uk across the developed world, with the office for budget responsibility signalling further hikes are on the way . now the government is the way. now the government is offering a financial package which it says is worth £2.5 billion to support the return of devolution to stormont in northern ireland it would include a lump sum to settle pubuc include a lump sum to settle public sector pay claims and a new needs based funding formula for public services. but the sinn fein vice president, michelle o'neill , says the offer michelle o'neill, says the offer doesn't touch the surfa

but hugo, keith, kc interrogating him and said, well, where's the evidence?pear to be any. he also pointed out that in matt hancock's pandemic diaries , hancock's pandemic diaries, which of course were not really diaries, but sort of information puts back in a diary form, there was no mention of this call. matt hancock said, oh, well, there's an email, but i haven't got it now. so there was that. and also i think the other very significant thing was about this protective ring around care homes, which matt hancock said in may of 2020 the government were throwing around almost vulnerable. he was forced to admit that that in fact, that was a protective ring, was no such thing because, of course, we know that people with coronavirus were being discharged while they were still positive , far back from positive, far back from hospitals who needed the bed space directly in to care homes. and we also know that care home workers who of course , there's workers who of course, there's nothing like enough of them were going from care home to care , going from care home t

he wrote his pandemic diaries and it was stressed by hugo keith kc yesterday. they weren't diaries. a diary form after by a journalist after the event, by a journalist, isabel oakeshott, who subsequent then revealed all the dirt down the line. and he was obviously very angry. so obviously he wants to rehabilitate himself and he is he was accused of having nuclear levels of confidence by by helen macnamara from the cabinet office a couple of weeks ago. but he clearly feels that he did his best and certainly the circumstances were horrendous . circumstances were horrendous. >> can i interject and just say , >> can i interject and just say, is there a shred of remorse , a is there a shred of remorse, a shred of decency from hancock over this? or is he just trying to deflect and woe betide me, i must say , i didn't hear any must say, i didn't hear any words of apology . words of apology. >> i think it was striking that the other day the levelling up secretary, michael gove, was giving evidence and he did apologise. he said , you know, apologise. he said, you know, we're human, we make m

what do you guys think of hugo keith by the way?'d like him to stand up straight and ask the questions seems to questions directly. he seems to have casual attitude to have a very casual attitude to the of the inquiry. the leadership of the inquiry. >> well, yes, of course . we >> well, yes, of course. we haven't to answer haven't got him here to answer for his stance on literal stance. yeah, but we'll have to leave it there, folks, as we've got no more time. but thank you both very much for your time. mike parry there, and of course, peter edwards, of peter edwards, formerly of labour now , folks, labour list, now, folks, thousands of pro—palestinian protesters are once again, i know , marching in central to know, marching in central to london demonstrate against the resumption of israel's campaign in gaza . but there's been in gaza. but there's been mounting pressure on the metropolitan police to take stricter action against incidents of anti—semitism dunng incidents of anti—semitism during these demonstrations. joining me now is

perhaps the trickiest moment so far of the day for the former prime minister was when hugo, keith, kcstioning read out kc, who is questioning read out extracts from patrick vallance diary where patrick vallance said that at the start of a meeting in downing street, boris johnson opened by talking about the possibility of letting the virus rip . now, boris johnson virus rip. now, boris johnson made the argument that it was not he did not want to let the virus rip. he wasn't immune to two fatal cities across the nation, but he felt that it was his job to push back against the consensus and to raise as an alternative to lockdown , even if alternative to lockdown, even if it was just for the sake of having a full and frank discussion on whether that line will hold . and there are lots of will hold. and there are lots of bereaved families here today, and there are plenty of campaigners who've been outside the room all day. they didn't seem happy with that line. it'll be interesting to see what the pubuc be interesting to see what the public makes it. perhaps the public makes of it. perhaps

the part that particularly was particularly bothered me was this keith, who's this hugo keith, kc who's's like, i'm the big he's the sort big prosecutor. he's the sort of tom and he said tom cruise of it. and he said that had the second that britain had the second worst deaths in europe , worst excess deaths in europe, and then qualifies and goes and then he qualifies and goes west but it's not west in europe. but it's not even as jacob even true because as jacob rees—mogg earlier this rees—mogg said earlier on this channel, there's a whole list of countries listed. there's countries he listed. there's austria, slovakia , austria, lithuania, slovakia, poland, czech republic, spain . poland, czech republic, spain. and these are just from memory. there's whole slovenia there's a whole list, slovenia that than us. that were worse than us. slovakia, like so many countries . so it's just completely false what what is what he said. so what is going on this inquiry, on with this inquiry, steve? well, are well, look, many people are making about the making the accusation about the inquiry the r

this hugo keith, kc who's this?e, i'm the big he's the sort big prosecutor. he's the sort of tom and he said tom cruise of it. and he said that had the second that britain had the second worst excess deaths europe , worst excess deaths in europe, and then qualifies and goes and then he qualifies and goes west but it's not west in europe. but it's not even as jacob even true because as jacob rees—mogg earlier this rees—mogg said earlier on this channel, there's a whole list of countries listed. there's countries he listed. there's austria, slovakia , austria, lithuania, slovakia, poland, czech republic, spain . poland, czech republic, spain. and these are just from memory. there's whole slovenia there's a whole list, slovenia that than us. that were worse than us. slovakia, like so many countries . so it's just completely false what what is what he said. so what is going on this inquiry, on with this inquiry, steve? well, are well, look, many people are making about the making the accusation about the inquiry the rig

hugo keith qc kc you will have heard a lot from him already . dodi what is boris already.ing of lockdown . matt hancock, the lockdown. matt hancock, the former health secretary said last week that the uk should have locked down three weeks earlier because it could have saved many, many lives . people saved many, many lives. people weren't ordered to stay at home, weren't ordered to stay at home, were they, until monday, march the 23rd, and back at the start of the pandemic, you might remember boris johnson was asked whether he was still shaking hands with people, this at hands with people, and this at the time is what he said. >> i can tell you that i shaking hands continuously. i was at a i was at a hospital the other night where i think there were actually a few coronavirus patients. and i shook hands with everybody . you'll be pleased to everybody. you'll be pleased to know. to shake know. and i continue to shake hands and think it's very hands and i think it's very important we, you know, important that we, you know, people up people obviously can make up their think t

. >> that is prime minister rishi sunak being quizzed at the covid inquiry by lead counsel hugo keithth, kc, who we saw questioning boris johnson , the questioning boris johnson, the former prime minister, last week, and at the top actually of this session when rishi sunak said he was deeply sorry to all those who lost loved ones during the pandemic and that it is important we learn the lessons as he's expected to face questions certainly about eat out to help out and whether that whether that idea actually fuelled the spread of coronavirus. >> yeah, some suggesting that one of the chief science officers didn't know anything about which i must i about it, which i must say i find to believe in. joined find hard to believe in. joined in studio by former labour adviser matthew lanza and author and broadcaster emma woolf. morning both. emma we've morning to you both. emma we've talked about this wretched inquiry . going talked about this wretched inquiry. going on inquiry. it's going on and on and on. making you any the wiser? >> no, absolutely not. i think we've had a parade of top polit

and i think, look, you know, credit to hugo keith, the that's leading this the kc, that's leading this, who is who is box whole thing, who is who is box office, if you ask me, he's brilliant on it. >> he's absolutely brilliant to watch . watch. >> but he is absolutely holding the right people to account, including michael gove. right. he last he said he was on the stand last week week, matt week. boris this week, matt hancock has come back, hancock has to come back, i think again . and we've got rishi think again. and we've got rishi monday , prime minister next week monday, prime minister next week who the chancellor monday, prime minister next week withe the chancellor monday, prime minister next week withe that the chancellor monday, prime minister next week withe that introduced1cellor at the time that introduced schemes like eat out to help out the furlough scheme, things that were deemed very good. but have they detrimental effect? they had a detrimental effect? we'll have to wait and see. >> you've segwayed >> charlie, you've segwayed us so beautifully on the next eat out to out

most disturbing bits me yesterday was when bits for me yesterday was when hugo kc going through hugo keithhe figures and he said to boris johnson, at this point, the infection 2. infection fatality rate was 2. the infection fatality rate was never over 2. it was between 0.1 and 0.5, depending on your age and 0.5, depending on your age and where you lived, etcetera. multifaceted contributed conditions. so i my feeling is if you go keith is going off the wrong data because it's always been about the data for me, this whole thing is flawed because yes, you might say, well, if 2% of people were going to die from covid, perhaps lockdowns covid, then perhaps lockdowns weren't just weren't necessary. he's just got the information has the wrong information he has because whitty gave because chris whitty gave a briefing the summer briefing to mps in the summer of 2020 made abundantly 2020 when he made it abundantly clear the clear in that briefing that the death rate for people with covid was between , he said the was between, he said at the time, between nought point three and it was somewhere in

he will face very tough questions from hugo keith casey, who has been grilling members of the pan cabinetthe timing of the lock towns. —— covid. the eat out to help out scheme, scientists do not believe they were consulted. you will also get what's coming up and see as tittle tattle but crucial to how the government handed will take the car handled covid, the toxic culture in whitehall. borisjohnson will be answering questions from an experienced lawyer, chaired by a judge. people who were bereaved during covid will assemble here to protest. that is a reminder that borisjohnson will be talking to a courtroom but also justifying himself to the public. more of the da 's himself to the public. more of the day's news _ himself to the public. more of the day's news now. _ a murder investigation is under way after a 42—year—old woman was shot dead in east london last night. a boy aged 16 and a 20—year—old man also suffered gunshot wounds. no one has been arrested, as nickjohnson reports. officers were called to reports of a shooting on this residential estate in hackney at 6:30 yesterday evenin

and that transgression as hugo keith kc called it, he asked about that and what effect that might haveck had to say in response . had to say in response. >> well, what i'd say is that . >> well, what i'd say is that. the lesson for the future is very clear here. and it is important that those who make the rules abide by them. and i resign in order to take accountability for my failure to do that . do that. >> and that, to your credit, must have been in reflection of the fact that you understood the importance of or the deleterious consequence of rule breaking or guidance breaking on public confidence and the public at large . yes. all right . large. yes. all right. >> yes. so that story, of course, cost matt hancock his job and he certainly never really recovered from that, has he? he currently doesn't have the conservative whip. it was taken away from him when he went into the jungle. he published his pandemic diaries that, as has been pointed out during the inquiry , were not diaries. they inquiry, were not diaries. they were basically reassembled at a later date. but today they in a

he was quizzed by hugo keith kc on excess deaths.cess deaths than almost any other country in europe. there are conflicting opinions as to whether that's true. depending on which data set you use, but it very much felt as though bofis it very much felt as though boris johnson was on the back foot. was asked about foot. he was also asked about the of lockdown, which the timing of lockdown, which you heard in that little you just heard in that little clip there. he sounded clip there. he wasn't he sounded as he wasn't quite sure as though he wasn't quite sure whether he had done the right thing . today, it looks like it's thing. today, it looks like it's set to be even worse for the former prime minister there on the you this the menu. if you like. this morning, we've got the partygate scandal. and as we know, boris johnson does not fare well at all when talking about that. we're also expecting to hear more about those whatsapp messages, those controversial whatsapp messages, the tone of those messages between dominic cummings very memb