hugo lowell, thank you for being with us. hugo: thank you.in today's other headlines, mississippi is under a state of emergency this weekend, and jackson residents have been told to evacuate, ahead of a major flood threat. some residents are already clearing out their valuables in anticipation of the pearl river overflowing. after record-setting rains this week, forecasters expect the river to reach 36 feet as soon as tonight. two u.s. navy warships sailed through international waters in the taiwan strait today. it's the first such passage by american ships since china began its provocative military presence in the area, following house speaker nancy pelosi's visit to taiwan earlier this month. china has said any warships in the taiwan strait are considered threats to its sovereignty. the white house says today's passage by the two vessels was long planned. brigham young university has banned a white male spectator from ever entering any of the school's athletic venues after he threatened and shouted racial slurs at a duke women's volleyball

congressional reporter for "the guardian" hugo lowell is with us. we mentioned. chives trying to go through its process, take the conventional and routines step it does to get these documents saying you guys delayed and delayed we don't recognize your argument and want the documents. >> effectively, yeah. look at numbers, staggering. right? 100 pages of documents. 700 pages, numbers are crazy. then i think that gives us an accounting of the volume and sensitivity of the kind of documents they pulled out of mar-a-lago. that was in january, the first request. like, went back in two other separate times. but the one thing that did stand out to me is this kind of potential obstruction. relays the ways that the justice department had to go to get the documents, and when you read that in tandem with trump's filing monday, you really see this picture develop of how the justice department was thwarted every effort to get the documents back and on the search warrant executed at mar-a-lago is significant and tying everything together. >> hugo, i understand you are not dean

and congressional reporter "the guardian," hugo lowell joins us. thank you, both. barbara, i'll ask the same question i asked you earlier this week. from what we know so far, what legal exposure is donald trump facing, given merrick garland's words yesterday? >> well, we don't know yet, but i think we might find out today. the fact that donald trump is not opposing the unsealing of this search warrant means that, i think, sometime today, this judge is going to unseal it. what we'll find there is the statutory citation that gave them the authority to conduct this search. i think it'll be revealing. if it includes what is the most serious charge when it comes to handling the documents, the espionage act, that could be confirmation that, yes, these are national defense documents. that would be revelatory. it may be that they use a lesser statutory citation because they don't have to use the biggest hammer to get in the door. but i think that'll be interesting. the other thing we'll find out is this inventory of items that were seized, as well as a list of the items th

joining me now, hugo lowell, congressional reporter for the guardian and msnbc contributor jill wine-banks, a former watergate prosecutor and co-host of the hashtag sisters in law and igm politics podcast. it's good to see you, talk us through the significance of the special master and the significance of the process beginning now. >> the special master really does not change anything. if it is granted, it is just a substitute for the filter team to is already in place to review. it could cause a delay, which i am sure is part of the only reason that this is being requested. it is silly to request it two weeks after the review had already started. you would normally do it right away. probably, they did not because it is normally done when there is actually a privilege issue. in this case, the documents, one, do not belong to donald trump. they were taken to his house because they were put there illegally. they belong to the government, so he has no right to claim any privileged to the possession of them. and it is not like he is an attorney where he has clients, and he might feel that atto

joining us now congressional reporter for the guardian hugo lowell has been immensely helpful unpackings story. you've been reporting on some of trump's latest additions to his legal team. he's been hearing the word no quite a bit. he also added the former head of the doj organized crime division. what can you tell us about jim trusty and the move? >> this is the latest edition to the trump's legal team. certainly a sense that trump's legal team is increasing in seriousness, certainly trying to hire people who they think would be beneficial to upcoming criminal indictment against the former president. that's why they're trying to pull people from doj or doj backgrounds to serve on its legal team. you have this sprawling effort where you have a number of lawyers who are more serious perhaps than others. this new addition is being led in part by boris epstein, a throwback from the 2016 campaign and the 2016 -- this is all coming together now in a very serious way. >> i have a new story out with colleagues for politico deep dive into the final chaotic days of the trump white house, aides m

let's bring in congressional reporter for "the guardian," hugo lowell, and senior national political reporter marc caputo. hugo, you've been looking at the fourth amendment. is this something donald trump is throwing against the wall, or is his legal team actually pursing this? >> it is not exactly clear. the fact we haven't seen this motion or filing to appoint a special master to review the documents is not encouraging. certainly, the team knows they have to do something. i spent the last few days in west palm beach. the overall sense was they needed to file something. not least because trump was not particularly pleased at how christina bobb, one of his lawyers, got pulled apart on fox news and castigated for not filing anything. i think if we see something, it is likely to come today. they can't afford to wait any longer. if they wait any longer, the fbi and the doj would have already finished their filter review and, frankly, there wouldn't be a need for a special master to go through the documents. they're really on the time crunch now. >> marc, you're looking at how trump world

joining me is hugo lowell for the guardian. hugo, let me go to you first on just the reporting on this. trump didn't -- his lawyers didn't really weigh in on these redactions. and i wonder if that has any meaning here and if there's any way we can get information on what they may know about how bad this release could be. >> well, the sense i get talking to people in trump world is they really don't know what doj is doing. i think that is something that really frightens them. talking to trump's legal team and advisors, they are as much in the dark as we are about what's in the affidavit. the but one thing is clear, right. this affidavit contains the probable cause that the justice department identified needed to get that search warrant. and that i think, you know, could be quite potentially explosive even if we don't get the details about the sources and methods that justice department is using in this criminal investigation which we should say is in the early stages. we might get the full rundown of how the doj had to take such

trump world's -- let's bring in hugo lowell, congressional reporter for the guardian.friend. have you heard anything developing speculation that there might be an informant within the trump ranks? >> i've certainly heard that trump world is very much wary of the fact that there may be an informant. certainly there have been a number of people who have left mar-a-lago. the trump team in recent months. that's what's feeding the speculation. but you know, according to the new york times, and our reporting, a lot of this has come from the trump lawyers themselves. the times reporting of course that one of trump's lawyers signed a document that said they've turned over all of that material. we heard as early as tuesday that the justice department is concerned that the classified material -- as a result of interactions with the lawyer. have to >> tell me the take away from the three-page list of the items that were removed from trump's home. we have 11 sets of top secret and confidential documents. something this described as information about the president of france. you've

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donya perry, former assistant united states attorney in the southern district of new york, and hugo lowell, congressional reporter for the guardian. both of you, thanks for being here. hugo, i'm going to start with you. high level. what stood out to you about this new filing from the doj last night? >> the thing that really stood out i think is the obstruction. we've been hearing for weeks now about the classified documents and the degree to which government secrets were being stashed at mar-a-lago. but i think the doj really put an emphasis in that filing last night on that potential obstruction. and of course reading between the lines, we now see at least two trump lawyers might themselves be facing some legal peril here with the obstruction side of the investigation. evan corcoran and christina barbacore signed the documents saying all documents had been turned over and it turns out that wasn't the case. that element was a significant moment. >> dania, i have to ask you, were both former prosecutors, private practitioners, as you are doing. now it is wild to think about the possible exp

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gentlemen now, hugo lowell, congressional reporter for the guardian and msnbc legal analyst, barb mcquadeow law professor at the university of michigan. she's also co-host of the hashtag sisters in law podcasts. lawrence tribe argues that the doj has to charge trump before the midterms, in order to convict him by the next presidential election. what is your sense of the justice department's timeline? >> i disagree with that. i think that there is a real plot in terms of making sure that the case can go to trial, before there is a new president in january of 2025. but that is still more than two years away. i don't think the midterms are going to be any sort of clock for the justice department. these kind of investigations, you say, when can you have it done? it is very difficult because every time you talk to one witness, you might find a new witness to talk to. but realistically, i think as long as they can get him indicted sometime in the first half of 2023, i think there will be ample time to try the case before the end of the biden administration. >> you go, talk to us about your late

hugo lowell of the guardian has tweeted about another attorney called aleapa habba who told the u.s.y general in may that she personally searched for materials in that investigation and searched all over mar-a-lago raising the possibility that she may have come across classified documents without a clearance making her a potential witness in the doj case. one more item, lawrence twib has tweeted about some of these folks, and he says if trump's lawyer evan corcoran and his custodian of records christina bobb are charged with obstruction of justice as doj's midnight 830 filing implies they might be, the question is will they lie again or point their fingers at their boss donald trump? what does you make of this? this is multiple attorneys all of whom potentially could become witnesses. >> well, i've said it on this channel before and i'll say it again. maga now stands for making attorneys get attorneys, like all of these people need to have legal counsel going forward. joyce is exactly right. there's incredible exposure here to criminal liability certainly for all of the individuals w

. >> joining me down, hugo lowell, congressional reporter from the guardian. and former u.s. attorney, joyce vance. she's an msnbc contributor and professor at the university of alabama school of law. good to see you both. joyce, i want to start with you. let's talk about this new reporting from the times. what would it mean if trump's own attorney falsified a statement to the doj? >> so, what this does, alicia, is a tight lights how dependent we are on understanding the facts, what's actually happened here, before we can reach any understanding of whether this was really just an effort by doj to reclaim these classified materials, or whether this is an investigation that's pointed, this perhaps headed towards indictment. because that will be heavily fact dependent. situations like the one that you are discussing, that we are newly learning about tonight, where people affirmatively took steps to conceal least important materials. it wasn't just a mistake, or perhaps, a certain amount of ineptitude, although gross negligence can be a criminal violation. if this looks like an i

t joining me now is hugo lowell, melissa murray, and professor of law at nyu, and tracey walter, formeria officer and fbi special agent. welcome back all three of you to the broadcast. it has been a very busy 24 hours since this redacted affidavit has been released. i want to get your reaction, starting with you, hugo, what did the affidavit reveal that we didn't previously know? >> i think feminine standpoint -- the fact that the fbi knew where and which rooms they were targeting, and outlined in one part of the affidavit was incident. a place like pine hall which is the foyer leading into trump's residence and bedroom, that's a place that's not widely known. the fbi pinpointing that location to me suggest that the fbi has a number of human resources close to the president who are cooperating with the investigation. the affidavit of course mentioned civilian witnesses who have been cooperating. >> a very key take, pinehurst mesa, the. what about you, melissa, whether you're biggest takeaways? what's telling you about where the doj is in its investigation? >> it's interesting that we le

hugo lowell. and professor at princeton university, eddie glaude, jr.e's so much here this morning, that obviously was revealed by midnight last night. the papers found in, it appears, the 45 office desk, i don't know if that's donald trump's office. 45 office. is what it's called. but these papers are clearly highly sensitive. and the revelations overnight are quite stunning. >> i don't know, maybe 45 office, it's tiki bar at mar-a-lago, i don't know. >> yikes. >> the thing that we keep circle be back to that you brought up, donald trump have has no explanation for it. >> he doesn't deny it. >> rudy giuliani has no explanation for why the documents, the top secret documents that the government holds were taken from the government and taken to mar-a-lago. newt gingrich calling them wolves wanting to devour americans doesn't have any defense. there is no explanation, there is no defense, at least legally. and legally, john heilemann, it seems to me that every day for donald trump, they think they're going to do something with this special master. a plea

let's bring hugo lowell, with the caveat, hugo, those, of course, are not documents belonging to the president, but the to the national archives. what do we know what they may have said to the fbi that prompted the fbi to say we've got to get into mar-a-lago to get the boxes? >> we don't know exactly what they told the fbi, pat philbin. >> involved from the end of the administration trying to get the documents back to the national archives and was very unsuccessful in doing that. the fact that he knew how management was going on in the west wing those final days i think suggests that he had intimate knowledge about how the documents were bandied about in the west wing. and might have realized he had full disclosure as he knew what was happening in mar-a-lago. >> as we try to sort out how the fbi and justice department understood it would be worth pursuing a warrant to get into mar-a-lago. some people want to see the affidavit. there will be a hearing later. from your sense, from talking to people who work in law enforcement, people who are u.s. attorneys they say it's very unlikely t

. >> joining us now mark and congressional reporter for the guardian hugo lowell. >> thank you so muchstuff, you are for the most part, but when i look at the redacted affidavit, i see a redacted affidavit and i need to know more, what about you? i'm hearing people on the left saying, talking about nuclear secrets and a meltdown of human intelligence, people on the right saying it's much ado about nothing, most of us confused by the back and forth because we don't know what the hell's in there? >> that's right, joe, i think to what my boss used to say, patience, grasshopper, which means, let's slow down right now. she's going to take a look at what's in those documents, it makes a lot of us really nervous. i ran agents for cia for 2.5 decades, a russian, a japanese, agrees to spy for the united states, a sacred bond wean the cia and that agent and that's to keep their identity secret. the notion there's possibly compromising information is really serious. we have to let the investigation play out. both senators warren and rubio called for this investigation, called for this dni assessm

. >> hugo lowell, chuck rosenberg, thank you both for being on. we appreciate it. a lot happening. >>> still ahead on "morning joe," a rough travel summer season takes another big hit. faa staffing shortages yesterday in the new york metro area led to long delays for travelers. it'll likely carry over into today's schedule. >>> also ahead, steve kornacki is standing by at the big board. he's going to break down the primary races in alaska and wyoming that are getting a lot of attention, for good reason. >>> plus, we'll get a live report from ukraine and the latest on a possible attack in northern crimea this morning. >>> as we go to break, a look at the other stories we're following today. president biden is expected to sign the democrats' climate, health care, and tax bill into law today. the white house says in the weeks ahead, the president will host a cabinet meeting focused on implementing the inflation reduction act into law. he will also travel across the country to highlight how the bill will help americans. >>> and defense secretary lloyd austin has tested