marshall humphrey -- humphrey marshall, who was he? and john randolph looks like he was quite a character. >> very much so. >> and explain the duel thing. >> it was usually an issue of honor. honor in the sense that reputation would probably be the modern equivalent. that if you allowed yourself to be insulted, and did not defend yourself, then you would be pushed around for the rest of your life. with clay one of the things that he said when he was in ghent is that young men need to fight a duel just to show that they will do it. and then once they have demonstrated that they will do it, then people will not probably try to push them around as much. and humphrey marshall was a senior person in the kentucky legislature who tried to -- and he was a federalist as well. clay was very much a jeffersonian republican, and they came at each other first for political reasons, but then it became personal. and marshall, again, sort of like randolph saw clay as more of an upstart. >> there's a big difference in the duels in years. >> very much so