like hunter harrison, and turn around a railroad. that's a great thing for the market, and it's a very healthy thing for the economy. >> rose: is it possible-- take a look at what happened to eddie lampert and sears. .>> sure. >> rose: he combined it with k-mart, first, and obviously, id he hoped he would make it into the next wal-mart which would be a huge payday. he didn't do that. what happened? other than retail is a difficult business. >> i would start with retail is a difficult business. eddie is not a trained retrailer. i'm sure he's learned a lot -- >> and nor are you. >> noram i. >> rose: and you're trying to tell j.c. penny what to do. >> there's a difference. let me explain. eddie is the c.e.o. of sears. >> rose: he became that because a series of c.e.o.s didn't work out. >> that's right. in the case of j.c. penny i became an investor. i don't control the company. i worked, with the board and alonged side the board to recruit a new c.e.o. when it was time for the c.e.o. to retire. we collectively decided on ron johnson as