>> will hurd has some interesting, i think, and bold ideas. this idea of an a.i.d licensing board is not going to fly. first of all, there are first amendment concerns. second, how do you do that? what qualifies? if some individual who has a sound board in his house wants to create an a.i. version of a song, does that have to go through the board? if a graphic designer wants to use a.i. to come up with logo, does that have to go through board? it's good he is on the forefront of a.i., but an all-seeing licensing and approval board is not going to ham. >> i give credit to him for putting ideas out there. the new technology, we got to do something about it. i mean, sam altman himself the founder of chatgpt says i welcome regulation, let's be partners in this and industry nee needs to work with government. government just be a half beat behind industry as in every technological innovation. >> thank you, guys, very much. we appreciate it. >>> the man accused of targeting former president obama's home did so after trump truth social posts. what trump shared to his mill

the notable exception, though, was will hurd. want you to listen very carefully to the crowd reaction. take a listen. >> donald trump is running to stay out of prison. if we elect -- [ crowd reacts ] >> i know, i know, i know, i know, i know. listen, i know the truth is hard. but if we elect donald trump, we are willingly giving joe biden four more years in the white house. >> reporter: now, in the room you could hear forks banging against plates. people in that room, a very large cavernous room literally booed hurd off the stage. it was very loud. contrast that to when donald trump took the stage. the entire room was on their feet, a standing ovation, by far the loudest support from this room. the reason why it's so important to note, fred, is because this is iowa caucus-going. really these movers and shakers at the grassroots level, the ones who will come out and k caucus. they have to chip away at that when trump has so much support, fred. >> kyung lah, thanks for bringing us in the room. let's talk more about all this now wit

will hurd and chris christie could do that. >> simone, what do you think about these candidates? if they are not willing to go after trump, why are they running at all? >> well, look, i think that everybody you know running is has a strategy, what we are seeing here, is this the right strategy in the lead up -- to and the mainstay truism of these folks are trying to get on, and i would argue, this i agree with, us do what we saw in the democratic, primary in the 2020, 2019, i believe those 2020, and in that race, then former vice president joe biden now president, biden he wasn't popular candidate, that people didn't want to necessarily go after, people like him. but, they wanted to make sure they essentially cut him off and they created a lane for themselves, i think they -- that inseam to work out well for those, canada's because joe biden and it becoming the, nominee but i would argue as someone who works on that, campaign there were some damaging moments, and i think that candidates, republicans would like to gain ground on donald trump in this race, they need to take a look

but what hurd is saying is quite honestly true.t this point in his mind. >> i want to get your take from your conversations with people on the ground as a republican yourself talking to voters in recent months. what do you think people want to hear from these candidates who are battling to be the trump alternative? do they want to hear them take on trump directly? >> there'sv?á certainly chaos o the battlefield. the candidates, in my upon opinion, the early candidates tried to beat donald trump light. the party has the opportunity to really step up statistically speaking. we have the best opportunity to win the white house maybe ever in our party's history because of how poorly joe biden is polling right now. but we're missing the opportunity. we continue to talk about the wrong things. i think americans are going to wake up and be concerned about the economy, about the border and the negative effects, about international chaos, these are real situation where is we need a leader to step up and take the charge for a gop 2.0 that i o

candidate ll hurd joins me next >>> welcome back.mer texas congressman will hurd was one of 13 republicans who made their case to iowa voters on friday night at their annual lincoln day dinner in des moines. he was the only one of the 13 to pointedly criticize donald trump for the charges against him to audible gasps and boos in the room. >> donald trump is not running for president to make america great again. donald trump is not running for president to represent the people that voted for him in 2016 and 2020. donald trump is running to stay out of prison, and if we elect -- i know. i know. i know. i know. i know! >> former republican congressman will hurd of texas joins me now. congressman hurd, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks for having me on. >> you knew what you were doing when you went into that room. that was a prepared thing you did, that off-the-cuff, the reaction you got, was it as expected? >> of course, there was as expected. i knew there would be people that didn't like it, but what i didn't expect is there

coming up next, one of trump's republican 2024 rivals joins me here live, will hurd is with us. plus, i will speak live with a former trump official who says that he win is trump's handling classified documents while in office. this is cnn special live coverage. retinol overnight means... the smoothing benefits of retinol. are now for your whole body. plus, fast-working crepe corrector diminishes wrinkled skin in just two days. gold bond. champion your skin. introducing the all-new 2024 chevy trax. ♪ ♪ helps you stay connected, ♪ safe ♪ and charged. ♪ the all-new chevy trax starting at $21,495. the possibilities are endless. when i was diagnosed with h-i-v, i didn't know who i would be. but here i am... being me. keep being you... and ask your healthcare provider about the number one prescribed h-i-v treatment, biktarvy. biktarvy is a complete, one-pill, once-a-day treatment used for h-i-v in many people whether you're 18 or 80. with one small pill, biktarvy fights h-i-v to help you get to undetectable—and stay there whether you're just starting or replacing your current treatme

congressman will hurd, thank you for joining us. you, and amen, i agree, we are lucky to live where we live. >> trey: what did you see when you surveyed the existing candidates that led you to say, i'm jumping in and going to run to be leader of the free world? >> sure, there is a path for a dark-horse candidate like me. i recognize the challenges i have ahead, the reality is, we are faced with generational-defining challenges, everything from china trying to surpass united states as global superpower to inflation that is impacting our economy at time when ai will upend every single industry and our kids are not getting the kind of education they need. these are the issues we should be talking about and we have to win in november. that is the reason i tossed my hat in the ring in order to try to do something about it. my mother, may she rest in peace, said be part of the problem or part of the solution. i will try to be part of solution. >> trey: i am lucky, we were on committees together, i had a bird's eye view for your service on

people like will hurd, chris christie, saying the truth. that is important out there.t is a cult and he is a cult leader and it is tough to break people from that spell but we have to keep trying. >> miles taylor and adam kinzinger, thank you both very much. >>> up next, another major development today, trump's lawyers meeting with the special counsel as he awaits a third indictment involving efforts to overturn the election. hear what happened in that meeting and what it means for his legal peril. this is cnn's special live coverage. to reel in the fun and serve up great times.. to help you get readyy your aspen dental team is celebebrating 25 years of affordable caree with an epic summer of smiles event. right now, new patients without insurance get a free full exam and x-rays. plus, everyone can get 20% off their treatment plan. but hurry, because while these summer savings won't last, the memories you make together will. aspen dental. book today. the first time you connected your godaddy website and your store was also the first time you realized... well, we can do

up next we will talk live with will hurd.st, here is what some of our fox affiliates are covering tonight. fox 11 in los angeles as the 18-year-old son of basketball star lebron james is out of intensive care after suffering a cardiac arrest. lebrony james is said to be in stable condition. working out at the university of southern california monday where he is supposed to play on the usc basketball team this fall king county considers rehiring some workers who lost their jobs after refusing to take the covid-19 vaccine. both the sheriff's office and the county jail are dealing with staff shortages there. officials say 314 people left the county payroll because of the vaccine mandate. and this is a live look at atlanta from fox 5, our affiliate there. one of the big stories there tonight. the controversial song by macon georgia's jason aldean jumps 999% in streaming since last week. try that in a small town has been criticized by all kinds of folks. aldean has vigorously defended the song and video. the song sold 228,000 trac

we know where will hurd stands on. went desantis and others suggest that they, indeed, would pardon the former, president it raises the question, is there actually much light of day between donald trump, the actor himself, on january 6th, and all the other candidates who may, indeed, give him a pass for his activities? and the republican party is in an odd place, historically. but they remain competitive. the american people will be the ultimate deciders come next november. >> let's talk about the other candidates, don, i want to bring you in. isa hutchinson was the only other candidate even mention trump. yet, notably, the former president started his speech by attacking one of his rivals. desantis, less than three minutes into the remarks. are these candidates losing any real challenge if they refuse to run against trump? they won't even name him? >> well, look, i think there is a danger that republican candidates face. there is a complete disconnect between their base and critique of donald trump. so what these cand

will hurd did it there.at will hurd is necessarily a top-tier candidate at this point. but if other people did that they could start changing things. on the current course they're not going to change. >> on the other side of it, katherine, vivek ramaswamy dismissed the importance of the latest charges. he basically said they're part of a process crime. i want to play what he had to say. >> i think that our general norm in our justice department is you should not convict somebody of a process crime when there was no actual underlying crime. so i v i think that's a major -- >> you think destroying evidence is a process crime? >> i think it is by definition a process crime. nobody left, right, any legal scholar will agree with me on that statement. that is by definition a process crime. a crime that would not have existed but for the existence of an investigation. >> can you help us unpack that? >> well, the definition of a process crime are crimes against the judicial system. so i think this candidate is sayin

we talked about how former texas congressman will hurd was met with boos on friday. we saw how much of a strong reaction that got from the audience. nikki haley this morning, with more cautious words, just saying that if we elect former president trump once again, that this whole general election is going to be filled with more legal battles on the horizon. richard? >> nikki haley saying this will be bad for republicans if this continues. thank you so much, marissa, a great setup for us. let's get over now to nbc senior national politics reporter, jonathan allen. jonathan, we've seen this before. the more he's put on, defense the more offense he takes, right? is this what we are seeing right now as he is trying to, if you will, attack his own? threatening to -- eat his own if you will? >> absolutely, richard. we know from president trump over the course of the last six years or so, basically believes anybody who is not loyal to him is disloyal to him, disloyal to the, party disloyal to the country. you hear that in his comments and is basically issuing a call to the

to onethe uck rosen republicans challenging trump for the nomination, former texas congressman will hurdonald trump is running to stay out of prison. >> plus impeachment trial balloon. as hunter biden's plea deal unravels in court, house republicans threaten to impeach president biden. >> if they do not provide the information we need then we would go to an impeachment inquiry. >> this is impeachment theater. >> setting up a potential impeachment investigation, coinciding with the threat of a government shutdown all in the fall. i'll talk to biden campaign national co-chair senator chris koonce of delaware. and is age just a number? mitch mcconnell freezes mid-sentence in a news conference, putting a spotlight once again on the advancing age of many of our nation's leaders. >> the president calling to check on me? >> how old is too old to serve? >> joining me for insight and analysis are leigh ann caldwell of the washington post upon amy walter of the cook political report. fais shack ir, political adviser to bernie sanders and stephen hayes, editor of the dispatch. welcome to sunday. it

. >> will hurd, i appreciate your time on this fourth of july.op presidential debate will be here on fox august 23 at 9:00 p.m. eastern. tune in for that august 2024 candidates will be on force. where they're stopping next is telling. we have tips to keep costs down on this july fourth next. that gritty feeling can't be brushed away. even a little blurry vision can distort things. and something serious may be behind those itchy eyes. up to 50% of people with graves' could develop a different condition called thyroid eye disease, which should be treated by a different doctor. see an expert. find a t-e-d eye specialist at isitted.com the all-new tempur-pedic breeze makes sleep feel cool. so, no more sweating all night... ...or blasting the air conditioning. because the tempur-breeze feels up to 10° cooler, all night long. for a limited time, save $500 on all-new tempur-breeze mattresses. >> edward: forget fireworks. the first super moon of the year will light up the sky tonight. part of south carolina get it last night. this is a bright orange moon

what we need is that we need guys like will hurd just saying the reason not to vote against trump is because he's dangerous for america. don't support trump because he is dangerous for america. not because it would give joe biden four more years. what is he afraid of? another bipartisan infrastructure bill? that is ridiculous. >> wait a minute. the brother got booed. he spoke the truth last night and he got booed. i mean, this base is telling him you don't want to hear it. we don't want to hear it. so i mean, what does it take, what do you do, how do you move? it's not so much a question of moving them off of trump, they are not going anywhere, but how do you create that for the other 65% of the republican base that it seems to have largely checked out of this process to get them to check back in to eclipse trump. >> to be very honest i don't think that it is possible. there is a narrow chance of it, because we are an active god away, and donald trump is the old, he could have a health event as much as joe biden could, it is possible the next indictment will magically make trump unpa

unfortunately hurd is wrong.bviously trump launched his campaign before he knew about, like, all of these indictments and before these were taken seriously. >> but don't you think that donald trump knew that he was -- there were legal entanglements that were coming up? >> i think his ego and sense of invincibility is so strong that he doesn't think he's going to be held accountable for anything. at least he didn't at the time that he started -- >> so you don't think that donald trump is running just to avoid some sort of -- >> i think he knew he was going to run the day he realized he wasn't going to be able to overturn the election. now, has it lit a fire under him that he knows the way to state out of prison might be to get elected? sure. but i don't think that's the raison d'etre of his campaign. >> i don't know about that. first of all, given the amount of evidence against him, it is possible the only way he avoids prison is by winning the presidency. i do think everyone in his orbit was panicked this entire

. >> well there was one speaker that went after donald trump and that was will hurd and he got bo booed stage. >> let's play that for one moment. >> donald trump is running to stay out of prison. and if we elect -- [ booing ] >> i know, i know, i know, i know. if we elect donald trump, we are willingly giving joe biden four more years in the white house. >> he knew that was coming. >> he did. and he got attention for it which is one way of trying to stand out. but the other candidates did not try to go that route. and were talking about their agendas or drawing a contrast with biden instead of with trump. >> but politico wrote this week trump insulted their governor and he may be indicted again. this is iowa voters, but they still love him. it seems there is really nothing that he could do at this point that would cause iowa voters to not be in a majority, aligned with them. and that is despite a lot of iowa's leaders, whether it is kim reynolds, the governor, or the faith leaders and the evangelical community wanting to move away from trump. >> right. and some republican strategists wi

hurd is a former three-term republican congressman from texas and former cia officer and he joins me>> thanks for having me on and for quoting me right. >> well, i stumbled on it but i think i got it right. what is your reaction to the news of the day? >> it's more of the same. more baggage, more drama, more about him. more about, you know, him not protecting the constitution. it's shocking and it prevents us from talking about the real issues of the day. we had, you know, poor migrants dying in -- drowning in the rio grande river. we had what's going on in ukraine and instead we're talking about things that happened in the past. >> that's not going to change -- i mean, there's no way that that is going to change between now and election day. i mean, today wasn't just this letter. it was the court case in florida. it was the fake electors in michigan. >> look, the other thing that's like shocking to me is how some of the other candidates in the race have responded and news flash, if you're afraid of donald trump, then you're not ready to be president of the united states. i don't und

on the other hand, you've got will hurd, who has just during the race. you've got isa hutchinson, chris christie, people who are prepared to take the stand and say we stand for sort of conservative principles, but not that. i think when you add where these three guys are running, it's about 3% or something to that nature. maybe 4%. it's there any hope that's enough people might make it to a debate stage where they can sort of say there's an alternative in the republican party, and it doesn't have to be trump, but it doesn't have to be people who try to out-trump trump, like desantis? >> i certainly hope there's a path for chris christie and will hurd and asa hutchinson, but one thing about christie and heard, which differentiates himself from some of these other republican candidates, if they can actually run and -- in very difficult places, where republicans aren't really supposed to win. so, they come at this from a very different perspective. they understand the importance of winning independents and swing voters, and they also understand that trump,

>> i know, i know the >> will hurd, the former congressman among the very few willing to speak the truth. the others just won't. for either the sake of winning, or not taking off trump's base. and you know that song they always play before trump walks out, only in america? that's a great song and we love it, but after trump's indictment, maybe not play this portion of it. >> one could end up going to prison. one just might be president. ♪ ♪ ♪ only in america. >> only in america. you can't script it, folks. starting off off tonight, msnbc contributor and former watergate prosecutor jill winebanks. she co-hosts the hashtag #sistersinlaw podcast, and is author of the watergate girl. also with us, rick wilson, cofounder of the lincoln project and msnbc political analyst fernand r. amandi. welcome to all of you. ferdinand, by the way, is what president of ben dickson and a monte international and host of the strange days podcast. jill, let's start with you. it seems like trump missed the main takeaway from watergate, as ruth marcus writes in the washington post, quote, the cover-up is always

neil: i'm getting a sense that that congressman hurd, the former congressman, his was rejected.ceably booed for his criticisms of donald trump service that was not looked upon kindly among what seemed like a loyal trump audience. your takeawaysesome. >> it seemed as if that message was not received. but, you know, here's the thing about iowa, we're going to be first in the nation, we take this very seriously. we have to give an objective, neutral platform to every single candidate. then the voters of iowa decide what they want to do with that candidate. so we had a wide variety and, yes, you're right, last night will hurd's message was not well received. at the same time, we had a lot of our popular, poll-leading candidates that were well received, and i can't emphasize enough we have a lot of other candidates that are working on name recognition that were well received. that's why everything starts in iowa so something like that can happen. neil: yeah. your state has produced some surprises in the past. i'm curious though, jeff, there is the anomaly of the friction donald trump

, will hurd is not polling at the moment because he just join the race. kristie was a at i think 2% earlier this week. asa hutchison, 1.3%. so we have 5% versus donald trump's 50 plus percent of republicans with a conscience who would like to save their party. on the one hand, ruth's right, most of the party is a cult. is this a way to save it or is it better than the republican party implodes and something else shows up in its place? it's not a good thing to have one political party that functions in this country. >> i don't think the republican base is willing to accept a sane non cold like figure. the party has been radicalized. they've been radicalized to such an extent that these politicians and are running scared. they're afraid of their base. so i personally think it would be great if there would be more people to speak out about donald trump. it's gonna be absolutely necessary to have those people peel off in the general election and vote against him. but the only way this is going to go away is if that party is defeated over and over and over aga

look, they don't necessarily take on donald trump directly, like will hurd does.ormer governor chris christie does. trump is still very popular with the base. these candidates are gonna have to figure out how to differentiate themselves from trump. and say why voters should pick them over the former president, if they want to have any chance of breaking the logjam and getting some delegates, so they can maybe unseat donald trump from the front runner of the pack. >> symone, let's talk about the one candidate trump did. name wrong desantis. his campaign reboot seems to be the beginning with the defense of slavery. what is the strategy here? or is this just him being unable to understand that the enslavement of people was not okay? >> well, it's crazy, zinhle, that we're having to have these conversations. but the reality is, look, first of all, i think ron desantis is just not a good presidential candidate. obviously, he was a good republican candidate for governor in his state. that's what he won twice. i don't think he's a good presidential candidate. he doesn't

it is a message republican candidate, will hurd, is preaching to anyone who will listen.wa heard predicted that if his party sticks by the twice indicted, twice impeached former president, that the grand party will get what it caught the last time. >> donald trump is not running for president make america great again. donald trump is running to stay out of prison. and if we elect -- i know, i know, i know. i know. listen, i know the truth, the truth is hard. but if we elect donald trump, we are willingly giving joe biden four more years in the white house and america can't handle that. >> will hurd got booed telling the truth. telling the truth. that proved the latest on the gop voters are not ready to move on from trump. at what cost? could trump's mounting legal troubles helped turn the needle? we'll, you know, the bulwark, he writes this. one classic wisecrack of the trump era is lol, nothing matters. the idea gleaned from bitter experiences that nothing trump does, no matter how bad it is, will turn republicans against him. they're locked in. but are they? and you sur

just this morning will hurd said this is why -- he explained why he won't sign a pledge like this.sten. >> the issue is not with me supporting the republican nominee. the issue is i'm not going to support donald trump. and here's why. donald trump is a proven loser. >> hurd is the only candidate so far to make very clear that he is rejecting the pledge. six others have made it, i think we can say, less clear statements about it or sent mixed messages about what to do when presented with it but they'll all presented with it soon. joining us with more on this is daniel strauss. thank you for coming in. what's the point of a loyalty oath to the party? i mean, for this orany candidate running, it's unclear why the party cares about it, why the national committee cares about it and why the state cares about it so much. >> partially it's because any gop or democratic operative in a divided primary, a crowded primary, is worried that it will be a lasting and bitter fight. and that lasting and bitter fight will spill over into the general election. so the question is here, will there be su

in your viewers want to see me on the debate stage, go to hurd for america.com and give me at least $1talked about today. which is the fact, the heat. the extreme heat. the fact that the planet is very hot right now. you have heard some of your competitors and other republicans for a long time not acknowledge that this was a manmade crisis. but more importantly, not try to take responsibility. how important is it for everybody, not just democrats, not just republicans, but humans to try to address this? >> this is a responsibility for every american, every chinese national, everybody who lives in saudi arabia, this is an issue for everyone. and yes, this unprecedented heat is wild. on the coast of texas, the water was 90 degrees. that's not supposed to happen. so the fact that there's still a debate that climate change is real. climate change is real. humanity is having an impact and we need to be taking steps to address that. will that fix the heat this summer? no. but those that are in, check in on your loved ones. if you have elderly parents or grand parents, make sure their air con

i was just speaking to will hurd, former cia operative running for president now. even he, and i think he's a relatively straight shooter, even he had trouble coming out and saying that this was bs, going after the fbi >> going after the department of justice is just throwing red meat at the base. it's not actually based in any reality. >> look, will hurd is a character in my book. he served a cia operative overseas. he risked his life for the country. he pushed against conspiracy theories. look, the cia and fbi and justice department are incredibly powerful federal agencies. they targeted a left leaning groups throughout the vietnam era. they were used by richard nixon to target his enemies. that's why the reforms were put in place after watergate to make them more independent. it is alarming to see what is happening here. essentially, it is donald trump more than anyone else who is saying he wants to take control of these agencies. he says it's unfair and biased anytime they investigate him. we haven't seen this in the 50 years since watergate. >> barbara, you an

so chris christie and will hurd are exactly right. he's running to stay out of jail.this is not, you know people aren't -- republicans need to be focused on the general election if they any interest in winning and donald trump, you know, in pennsylvania this weekend he lost that by 80,000 votes, almost 100,000 votes, i don't see those votes switching, i have family in pennsylvania. they kicked donald trump's hand-picked candidates last year to the curb by pretty big numbers. >> barbara, how do you explain how people outside washington and new york and in places the first primary's going to be held or the first caucuses are going to be held, how do you explain their -- it looks as though dogmatic support of donald trump come whatever may come. >> the problem is the other candidates certainly, desantis who i really think that's over, put a fork in him, they've been skirting around it, so that's why i think it's helpful for these candidates who are speaking truth. a lot of seats with lost in 2022 by trump candidates. but so many republicans have been telling them that tr

he was specifically asked about, will hurd's claim that the president is running, the former president is running to stay out of jail and he dismissed it. he said he's always intended on running for re-election so he didn't buy into that. part of this line that we're seeing the former vice president walk, is that caucusgoers largely, when you talk to them in iowa, at left a to our cameras, they say it doesn't matter how many charges donald trump faces. they'll dismiss it all. i want you to listen to this. >> people see through this as a political trial. it is political by nature so people see through that. they're supporting him in the polling is reinforcing that they see him as politically driven trial. >> i don't think trump is undermining. i think the acts that he's being accused of will play out in court. i think they're doing a level fishing expedition looking at all sorts of avenues of his life and they're digging for things that will stick and things that they'll come up with. i think the republicans are starting to catch up. and looking at the biden family corruption. >> report

and a quick note to all of you heard that last block, will hurd, he's of co r

. >>> joining me tonight is republican presidential candidate and former congressman will hurd.gressman, you were a cia officer for nearly ten years. what do you make of jack smith's interest in trump's mindset about election systems being secure before he was aggressively attacking those very same election systems? >> well, i think he's going for this creating a conspiracy. the fbi is known for this. they've done this and a number of white collar crimes. i think that's what the focus is. you know, we saw so much of the interviews that happened during the january 6th committee hearings. we saw the conclusion of the fox news and dominion lawsuit about the fact that so many people knew that what donald trump was saying was a lie. i think you have the video evidence. donald trump rallied everybody to come to the capitol on january 6th. he told them to march down the street on january 6th. he basically told them to get mike pence. and to me, if we are sick and tired of this kind of thing, if we don't warrnt to see this potentially happen again, then we need to make sure that donald

when will hurd goes there and takes on donald trump, he's doing it to try to get media attention. have also expressed their disagreements. their preference may be to say, here's my vision for the future of our, without having to go back and talk about donald trump. >> so karen finney, what does this do for democrats? doesn't this underscore the reality that, yes, we'll get to all the challenges of president biden and what he faces here. however, i mean, there is an argument that president trump is likely to lose the election and some of these facts seem to, you know, underscore that possibility. >> absolutely true. and you know, we're very much focused obviously on the republican primary. but so much of what is being discussed in this republican primary would never pass muster with a general election electorate. i the not believe that the general election electorate of this country is going to re-elect donald trump. i mean, put aside how many indictments, just based on the record. just based on january 6th. it's just knot going to happen. so for democrats, though, it gives us the

i want you to take a listen to what your fellow 2024 candidate, former texas congressman will hurd aboutse who take the debate pledge to support the eventual nominee. this is what he had to say a couple of weeks ago. >> yapi can't lie to get access a microphone. i'm not going to support donald trump. i recognize the impact it has on my ability to get access to the debate stage, but i can't lie. it will be easy to say i'll do it, and then when it comes down, change your mind, by i just can't do that. >> in will hurd's formulation, are you lying to make the debate stage by signing a pledge to support the nominee, no matter who it is, including if it's donald trump. >> well, i won't see will hurd on the debate stage, and that's okay by me. the fact is we've got to change our party, jake, and change our country. and we had these debate pledges eight years ago, as you'll recall, and all of us signed them. and then when we got on the debate stage, and we were asked to reaffirm it, donald trump refused to raise his hand, the only one of ten candidates who did. the fact is, he has set the preced

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. >> republican candidates chris christie and will hurd join me to respond in moments. for whom? new attacks from top gop candidates on minority rights. >> instead of taking children to church they believe in taking children to drag shows. are they outside of step with voters? our political panel will discuss. ♪ ♪ ♪ >>> hello. i'm dana bash in washington where the state of our union is divided 6-3. key decisions by the supreme court this week once again up ended american life with a trio of sweeping rulings that divided americans and moved the country to the right, prompting far-reaching consequences that are only beginning to come into focus. the new decisions to gut affirmative action in college admissions curtail lgbtq protections and block president biden's controversial student loan forgiveness plan. it prompted blistering exchanges between justices on the court and brought the stakes in the 2024 elections into clearer view as top gop candidates said if elected they would push the nation even further on that path while president biden said only he can stand in thei

america can't handle that. >> will hurd got booed telling the truth. telling the truth, which proves the latest sign the gop voters are not ready to move on from trump. at what cost? could trump's mounting legal troubles helped turn the needle? well, you know, the bill work -- quote, one classic wisecrack of the trump era's is, lol, nothing matters. the idea glean from bitter experience is that nothing trump does, no matter how bad it is, will turn republicans against him. they are locked in. are they? a new survey finds 25% of republicans now think trump broke the law with his handling of calcified documents. that's up 16 points from october. just months after the fbi search of mar-a-lago was conducted. that could make things even harder for trump in a possible rematch with president biden. he's already lost to biden once. to win in 2020, four he would need to bring more voters into the camp. will republican voters who cast their ballots for trump twice already, it, yet we've done that, ultimately, they had met he's a proven loser with a whole lot mor

will hurd on that -- in that environment.those guys up on stage vying to be including your former boss, the alternative to trump in 2024? >> i think some of the candidates on the stage have expressed their differences with donald trump particularly on january 6th. it's the base of the party that looks back to four years and knows a lot was accomplished and will hurd goes on there and takes on donald trump and he gets media attention which he succeededa and there are plenty of candidates that also expressed their disagreements and when they walk into a venue like that, here's my vision for the future of the country without having to go back to talk about donald trump. >> karen, what does this do for democrats here? doesn't this underscore the reality that yes, we'll get to all of the challenges of president biden and what he faces here, however, i mean there's an argument chris christie is going to make this argument that president trump is likely to lose the election and some of these packfacts seem to underscore the possibil

will hurd's attempt is to kind of run at him, as chris christie is doing, rather than run alongside hime was going to get, and he was trying to get on a debate stage and get some national donors to help him out. >> two republicans in congress, obviously, but also, governor chris sununu of new hampshire, both showed up with a warning to their party about potentially impeaching trump, which we heard more and more calls for last week. those really escalated with the mccarthy comments. i thought that was interesting. it puts the majority at risk and makes some of those members, quote, walk the plank. >> these are similar to comments that we've heard from her on issues like abortion, where there is a radical approach within their own party as opposed to something that's more moderate on the spectrum. this is not, you know, sort of a new perspective from her in terms of how she, you know, is kind of signaling a warning to her own party about taking the most extreme approach to biden if they are to pursue some sort of impeachment investigation against the president, but, you know, she kind of

>> well, i won't see will hurd on the debate stage, and that's okay by me.we've got to change our party, jake, and change our country and we add these debate pledges eight years ago as you'll recall and all of us signed them and when we got on the debate stage and we were asked to reaffirm it donald trump refused to raise his hand and the only one of ten candidates who did. the fact is he has set the precedent here, and i will sign the debate pledge, and i will take it every bit as seriously as he did in 2016. >> new jersey governor chris christie, thanks for joining us today. appreciate it. >> jake, thanks for having me. i appreciate it. >>> and i hope you'll tune in when i sit down with another republican presidential candidate this week. florida governor ron desantis will join me for an interview on tuesday in columbia, south carolina, where he will be c campaigning. tune in to watch that on "the lead" at 2:00 p.m. eastern. we have quite a bit to discuss. heat could top 120 degrees and mark kelly joins me to discuss the climate crisis and the democrats' s

i know you have congressman will hurd on the program this morning.is the candidate we just saw booed on the stage for talking about donald trump in a negative light. it did have the feel of donald trump as the headliner and everybody else sort of on the undercard. do you see anything changing the dynamic of this republican primary, where it is now, which is the more indictments come in, the stronger donald trump gets? >> not right now, willie. one of the things we're trying to focus people's attention to is what this calendar is starting to look like in the first six months of 2024, where we're going to have -- we're literally going to be going back and forth. the day of iowa caucuses, a civil trial involving donald trump begins. there's all sorts of -- you get a set of primaries, then there will be a court hearing, there will be more primaries, maybe the nomination is over, then we have some more court hearings, and that's what we know for now. and this is before any new indictments that could come from jack smith or from what's going on in atlanta.

time coming up next, one of 2024 republican presidential candidate, will hurd.ident mounting legal problems. the special counsel digging to efforts to overturn the 2020 election. we're all able to do things as a family. ♪ get started at betterforthem.com >> back to our top story tonight. former president trump saying he's been told by special counsel jack smith he's a target of criminal investigations into efforts overturn the 2020 election. that could signal charges that are imminent for prosecutors could decide not to charge him. will hurd, who also is seeking the 2024 republican presidential nomination, wrote on twitter, losing to joe biden was so humiliating, donald trump that he was willing to let people die for his lies about a stolen election. that was what january 6th was about. heard is a former three term republican congressman from texas, a former cia officer, and he joins me now. thanks so much for being with us. >> thanks for having me on. >> -- >> and for quoting me right. >> well, some -- i think i got it right. what's your reaction to the news of

we were just talking with gop presidential candidate will hurd about a.i. in the lead but we need to get guard rails in they're so that the a.i. developers that keep us in the lead will understand what the rules of the road are. do you see any of that type of movement crimping the run-up in a.i. or does it really help the situation? >> you know i think actually that would be really helpful to the situation. there is a lot of fear-mongering going on with a.i. right now in terms of it will take over the world. we have sort of like "the terminator" sort of complex in the back of our heads f we have some sort of regulation that's sensible, some sort of guidelines what is allowed, what is not allowed. we know those things will have to evolve in time. we're really in the first inning of this stuff. if we get some sense of where guidelines are. that will help development, speed development. if they put capital expenditure into developing these things it will not be taken away by legislative fiat somewhere down the road. liz: you advise your investors to avoid util

and a quick note to all of you heard that last block, will hurd, he's of course running for presidentor president? i'm getting. now it's time for the last word with ali velshi, who is in for lawrence. good evening, ali. >> it's by the night at ten pm, and the indictment watch continues. we are, actually, still on the lookout for a possible indictment in connection with jack smith's special investigation after donald trump posted this about a meeting between his lawyers and justice department officials. quote, i expect

. >> that is former texas congressman will hurd. it's not surprising that he is criticizing trump, but those boos are an indicator of just how much support the former president still has in a room like that, full of donors in iowa, despite all of the legal troubles he is facing, including what was added yesterday. on thursday, the republican front runner was bracing for charges in one of the cases tied to efforts to overturn the 2020 election, but instead was slapped with more charges in another case, that one tied to his handling of classified documents. two of those charges stem from allegations that he tried to destroy surveillance footage at mar-a-lago. unsurprisingly, the former president spent the day lashing out at the special counsel. >> these are my texts that i gave to them. and they basically say, that's not enough. i don't think we would have had to give it. i'm not sure we would have had to give it. these are security tapes. we handed them over to them. they're trying to intimidate them so people go up and make up lies

i do think that the reaction to will hurd's comments are as predictable as you can get.here are two things you can't can lecture the leaders on in 2023 and that's donald trump and the truth. so doing both at once saying trump is only running to stay out of jail and the truth hurts, it seems like hurd was trying to elicit a negative response. he can stand up there and grand stand without much concern. the whole point of this campaign like asa hutchinson is to make a po point. but as you're suggesting for viable republican who is are trying to compete for the nomination, you can see why there's been such a reluctance to challenge trump head on. you're going to put through the ringer for doing it, which is one reason why chris christie didn't show up last nagt. he knew his critiques wouldn't go over and he was right. but if you can't attack trump and be nice to trump and still make end roads, it makes it impossible for any other alternative candidate to emerge as viable here. >> and that was my next question. as much as chris christie can read the room and know he shouldn't

thing is other candidates haven't jumped in to say no way like mike pence that the loudest voices hurd they plan to be antagonist particular toward the former president so despite what people say and their actions staying in the race there's fear there. >> it does make liars or hypocrites out of people who hold their nose and say idle sign this or sign it because i'm going to be the nominee so of course idle support myself but it just seems an odd thing. >> well, when they do the quote of liars and hypocrites i want them to say anderson cooper said that but you know i don't think it's the first time a people in a race with donald trump would eventually come around to his way of thinking or come around to siding with him. in fact some of those people are now running against him, so as i said, it's still early. this hasn't shake enout but this is an attempt by parties who have faced decline influence over the last couple of election cycles and in the meantime the republican party in particular has found that the state level that trump has essentially captured those positions, right. they