they were opening a wine bar called natterjacks in huyton, and there aren't that many wine bars in huytonay there was none. there was just pubs, and it was a room in a hotel. and my friend jackie and i were there, we were going in and there was a guy there. it was quite astonishing because there was a jag outside with a driver in and there was a guy at the door sort of saying hello to everybody with champagne, moet and chandon. you never saw champagne in huyton in knowsley at all in those days. so, yeah, we met him. he gave me a glass of champagne. oh, really? he did. he gave me and my friend a glass of champagne. it was a moment because you say there wasn't a lot of politics at home. doesn't sound like you were very political when you were young. was that the beginning of a journey away from the politics which you must have grown up in, labour politics, towards the conservative party? or did that have to wait till you were working in that carfactory? well, i'd already started working in the car factory. i started working in the car factory at 16. as you know, the legal age for drinking i