and end up in hyannis port when john kennedy was president. and saw him there, you know, and got a job, all night working in something called the hyannis port inn where all the press would stay. that was the kind of independent spirit i had. it did nothing to diminish my sense of wonder lust, right. >> but you also, i would imagine it gave you a sense of, a disposition to listen. >> it did, absolutely. for a lot of reasons i realized i learned more listening than talking. >> that is true of many of us. not everyone. >> certainly not in this political campaign. >> no, no, no. we learn to read and write in school. how can we teach listening? what advice would you give people to be better listeners? >> i thought about this, actually. and it is also about interviewing. to be a good interviewer, you have got to be a good listener. and to listen, you have to be in the moment. and to listen, you have to-- you have to hear, not just listen. but you have to really let it wash over you in a way that, you know, you can't overanalyze it, but you have to s