is it something in the hyg, the high yield credit etf? what should we be looking for?l be the trigger will start to be the actual transactions. you'll see asset sales occur. right now, there are banks that do want to delever that want to sell assets. they need to raise equity or raise reserves in order to do that. to -- steve and i were talking to the healthy banks, i think they're going to be able to take the reserves, they have the earnings. this is a good environment. and i believe the strong will get stronger and i think the smaller banks that aren't positioned will either have to get bought or get liquidated. >> you've acquired performing loans, office loans, specifically, at just cents on the dollar, right? 50, 60 cents on the dollar. so, where else are you seeing these opportunities right now? especially, you though, since we're in the early innings and still expecting rough times ahead, you are still outthere buying assets? >> again, i do think one of the things jon gray said was, you need to be buying as things are bottoming. if you can buy loans at a healthy

but interestingly, you look at hyg, you see outflows which were quite meaningful. do you handle that? do you also take chips off of the table in places where you see lower credits, or do you start to be greedy where others are fearful? >> that is the right question to be asking. a lot of investors reached into risk in the fourth quarter. ccc's really rallied. we are more conservative and don't feel we need to stretch for that risk. especially in a multi-asset contract -- construct. our global strategy has a mix of not only height bonds and senior loans, but we can reach into seal lows. those are an interesting investment opportunity because it is a diversified pool of loans where you are getting paid a premium of of similarly rated debt. we think those yields are quite attractive. they are also a stable borrower base for loans. instead of taking ccc rated high-yield risk, why not increase in quality, go into the clo market, and get something more loss remote over a cycle? sonali: when you think about how excited banks are to get from the record insurance to investm