have frankly, pretty successful in working in difficult subcultures like the sports culture, kind of hyperre, masculine cultures and in increasingly male-dominated corporate spaces, because we know how to work effectively with men, and of course bridging some of the differences and challenges and working in diverse environments, not just racially and ethnically diverse but gender diverse environments. one of the strong suits is that we have an approach that can really engage a man in an effective way. host: how do you do that? >> one way to do it is defining it as a leadership issue for men, and a strength for men. a man challenging other men or interrupting other men for sexism is not something evidence of a man weakness or softness, or something like that, or he's too politically correct. it is actually an illustration, or manifestation, of his strength and character and we do find it like that and we challenge men. we say, look, if you are silent in the face of your fellow men's abusive behaviors, or harassing behaviors, or other forms of interpersonal abuse, if you are silence, in a sens