>> well, ian barber really from carlton college is the genius, the pioneer who began this whole field in the 50s and 60s and i had gone to carlson and worked with him with ordained work in the chapel there and used his work as a bridge. he was able to make those connections and say okay, here's what theological language means in a wider contexted used in philosophy and history and how it connects to science. his work has always been a bridge building work for the center and in fact, now we have a chair named after him. to thank him and honor his work. but there were a number of others. my own students lots of great people and lots of events conferences and doctoral courses that takes a lot of work. >> i believe that. we're talking with dr. bob russell the founding director for the center of natural sciences in berkeley. good friend and when he comes back, we'll talk more about science and religion and questions that may interest you. . >>> one of the great resources in san francisco bay area the center for theology and natural sciences, lots of places in the country people still think