joining me now is ian bremer, co-founder of the ur asia group. also with me is jane harman, extinguished fellow and a congresswoman from california who served on the house armed service an intelligence committee. she's the author of "insanity defense, while our failure to con front national security makes us less safe." for those of you that watches my show, these are two people who i most closely depend on to understand the global order, the new world order and, jane, i have to start with you. we have since the destruction of world war i and world war ii and the cold war, come up with international structures like the league of nations and the united nations and the g countries, all of which were to maintain peace and world order through trade and through military alliances and now where i am standing right now, i am 500 feet from the end of the nato alliance. it ends right behind me. and yet somehow we are not seeing these global organizations be able to keep the world safe. what is wrong, jane? >> well, the liberal world order that was invente

i may want you to chime in after our conversation with ian bremer. ian, i want to start with perhaps the most important meeting between national security advisers we've had in years. and that was yesterday when jake sullivan met his counterpart in italy of china. was this tough talk or how can we make a deal? >> it started as the former. seven hours long. one-on-one. it deserved that level of time and focus. the big piece of information that we have is that the day before you saw all these headlines that said that the russian government was asking china for military support. that was leaked by the white house. they could have said that privately to the chinese leaders. they chose not to, and the reason why and making it public was to pressure the chinese government saying this is unacceptable, that the americans will not tolerate chinese help to allow the russians to avoid the isolation that they have brought on themselves by this invasion of ukraine, that china needs to be part of the solution or at least not part of the problem or there will be econ

joining us now, ian bremer, president of the eurasia, a leading consulting firm. you have studied this more than most. let's talk about this. less say you can't getle real information. you are in russia and for whatever reason everything you read follows the official line that this is a strategic operation in ukraine, it's not a war, it's not an invasion, but suddenly your credit cards don't work and you can't buy stuff and you can't use stuff and you can't see stuff, and things aren't available on the shelves and your interest rates are 20% and your money is not worth anything, at some point people are going to say, this official story line doesn't jive with my life. >> some people are, ali, but most people are not. some people are going to be primarily young, educated, literate, and online. and least previously online. given how much is being shut down right now by russia. in major cities. but the majority of the population is overwhelmingly fed information through state media, and you know, that's television, it's newspapers, it's not digital, and the level of

joining me now is ian bremer, the author of power of crisis how three threats and our response will changeining us. let's get into this. >> okay. >> you say that there's a major power conflict going on here, and that there is a broader confrontation between -- brewing between the west and russia. broader, how is that? what do you mean? >> well, i mean, it's the end of the peace dividend. you remember we talked about that when the wall came down, and for 30-plus years now, the world has been able to spend less on defense, has been able to focus more on the economy in europe, focus more on the social contract, that's gone now. and, you know, silver lining is that nato has a purpose and is much more aligned. the reality is we are fighting right now against russia. massive military adversary. it's a proxy war, but the russians consider it to be, you know, sort of acts directly taken against them, and they are going to retaliate, this immensely dangerous issue for all of us out there. >> it is immensely dangerous, and quite complicated. i don't see a good end to this for anybody involved, and t

and joining me now is ian bremer, president of the eurasia group and founder of g zero media. be with you, and i appreciate your joining us. i want to get your reaction to the breaking news that happened on our air just a short time ago, the fact that the state department announced the u.s. government now assesses russia's forces are committing war crimes in ukraine. what is the significance? is it more than symbolic? >> it's not surprising. i don't think president biden would have made that public statement if he didn't know that was coming down the pike. i think what we need to be clear is that globalization for russia has ended. their normal diplomatic and economic relations with the west, with the advanced industrial economies of the g7, have ended. and there's no way to come back from that. i mean, maybe we get to a place of negotiations. maybe we can freeze the conflict. but as long as putin himself is running russia, this is a point of no return. and i think that that is something we have to think about much more seriously. i think we now have a pretty good sense of wher

ian bremer, i appreciate you being with us.od to be with you. >>> coming up next, mary poll, a city under siege running out of virtually everything people need to survive. >>> later a live report from poland where refugees just keep arriving. we're telling their stories ahead. move to sofi and feel what it's l like to get your money right. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ move your student loan debt to sofi—you could save with low rates and no fees. go to sofi.com to view your rate today. ♪ ♪ (customer) [reading] save yourself?! money with farmers? (burke) that's not wrong. when you switch your home and auto policies to farmers, you could save yourself an average of seven hundred and thirty dollars. (customer) that's something. (burke) get a whole lot of something with farmers. ♪we are farmers.bum-pa-dum, bum-bum-bum-bum♪ (music throughout) meet a future mom, a first-time mom and a seasoned pro. this mom's one step closer to their new mini-van! yeah, you'll get used to it. this mom's depositing money with tools on-hand. cha ching. and this mom, well, s

ian bremer, the president of the eurasia group. grateful for your time today. it is a sad day.nians, a russian strike on a maternity ward in mariupol, one of the things many people have feared. you have studied vladimir putin a long time. two weeks in, a normal people might re-assess. instead, the fear is this, more indiscriminate attacks on civilian areas. >> yeah, i mean, unfortunately pretty much any scenario we look at shows that putin is going to end up in a materially worse position both in terms of his own domestic political environment, certainly in terms of russia's economy and perhaps most importantly for putin if you look at his european security environment which is ostensibly the reason he invaded ukraine to begin with, he will be much worse off than he was before he invaded and that makes it harder to find any way for him to climb down at least until he can credibly make the argument to his people i have accomplished x, y and z. right now he's not there. until kyiv is taken, until zelenskyy is removed from office, it is really hard to imagine a climb down from put