ian goldin, welcome to hardtalk. it's a pleasure to be with you, stephen.t's great to have you here. now, in your book, the shortest history of migration, you have a pretty simple core message, which begins with the thought we are, all of us, migrants. now, i understand that in sort of evolutionary terms, but why does that matter to today's debate about migration? it matters because i think we need to appreciate that without migration, there would be no human civilisation, and that it continues to be as relevant as in the past, and will be even more so in the future. we need migrants. we need to appreciate them. of course, we need to manage migration more effectively, but we need to recognise not only that we're all mixed up ourselves in our origins, but that our societies require migration in order to thrive. in your short history of migration, you go back 300,000 years to the beginnings of movement, of what we now know as the earliest humans across east africa into north africa. and you then catalogue all sorts of different movements right across the worl

ian goldin, welcome to hardtalk. it's a pleasure to be with you, stephen.history of migration, you have a pretty simple core message,

ian goldin, welcome to hardtalk. it's a pleasure to be with you, stephen., we're all of us migrants.

south african—born economist ian goldin has done just that in an effort to reframe this migration debate