at the same time, the icc, they want them, too.believe the choice is for the libyan people, we have the right, what they want to do with them. that's what will be decided in the coming few weeks or months. it's difficult to say at the present time. i have very good news from brega now. i understand the gadhafi brigade raised the white flag, and the army will enter the third section, what they call the industrial area. this means libya is under the control of the tnc now. >>> the ambassador of the tnc there of the united states. financial markets opened for a new week of trade. do the fear and uncertainty from last week remain? kind of a new mood. we'll find out more about it in just a moment. >>> let's update you on the latest from libya. joyful libyans have turned out in the capital of tripoli and other cities to celebrate what they hope is the end of moammar gadhafi's regime. an official with libya's transitional national council tells cnn a great majority of the libyan capital is under control of the rebels but caution there are

and this -- see, the icc is not the international criminal court was not designed for situations likes. here you have an indigenous governing body that's going to take over the country. they are more than capable of deciding how to deal with the people in their country, not some international court. can you imagine what egypt would be like today if everybody had insisted mubarak be turned over to the icc instead of actually having to be dealt with by the egyptian people? >> that's such a good point. james joining from us the heritage foundation, sir, thank you very much. >> thanks for having me. >> you bet. very fluid scene this morning. we don't know what's going to happen to muammar qaddafi. maybe some time in our broadcast, he'll be brought to justice. we move ahead. >> keeping a very close eye obviously on the situation in libya after rebels made major advances overnight. we're hearing now they have control of 95% of tripoli. we'll have the latest in about two minutes. stay with us. >> all right. this is a fox news alert and we have lots to talk to you about early on this monday m

if he went to europe, he'd be arrested immediately and taken off to the icc. so south was the only way he could go. unless he's holed up in a spidey hole somewhere in tripoli itself. the south is where instinctively he would want to go. that's where the desert is. that's where the best hiding places are. and that's closer to sort of sub-saharan africa, we are still has pockets of support among governments there. >> when we talked about the sons being arrested too, that nbc can confirm that are in custody, a third potentially in custody, that's being reported overseas, what do you think is likely to happen to them? >> well, i think the icc, the international criminal court, has said that it wants saif al gadhafi, the most prominent of his sons. there's an indictment against him. it's a little unclear whether the transitional council wants to hand him over yet. we've had different statements from different people in the council. but it's encouraging that he wasn't immediately dragged through the streets of tripoli and beaten up or worse, or killed. it looks like

um, your question, where does it leave the icc? >> well, the icc, i mean, do you see it actually moving forward in terms of prosecution? and also just in terms of accountability for human right violations, what can we expect in that region? >> well, the problem is that, you know, if we actually do vote for article 16, then, basically, we're saying that we're giving carte blanche to anybody to do anything they want. and it's really hard to know where we go forward from that if there is no accountability, if there is no justice. you do begin to wonder what the point of all of this is. there is another thing that i hear often when i'm in africa, and that is that it would -- i mean, a lot of ordinary africans, the africans i'm talking about who are, you know, participate in the radio phone-ins who disagree utterly with their leaders and who are very concerned about genocide, their point would be we are very much behind the icc. but, please, could you indict some white leaders for iraq so at least it wouldn't seem that the only people w

just a reminder to viewers, on june 27th of this year, the icc issued an arrest warrant against moammari. we're not sure where moammar gadhafi is right now, but what is the position of the icc now with regards to the libyan leader? what is the next step? >> there are -- in the libya case, one is against moammar gadhafi and the other one against saif gadhafi and the other against his other son. we understand, sources are confirming, our information, that saif was arrested, and that's very good news and we are planning tomorrow to transfer the tradition of authorities. how to manage this, because normally saif will -- the crimes are crimes against humanity. so this will affect the entire war and the international court will convene. that's why we heard he was arrested and we'll discuss tomorrow the transition of authority, how to manage to surrender him. >> so the plan is tomorrow to discuss with the transitional authorities the transfer of saif al islam gadhafi, one of the sons of moammar gadhafi to the hague. is that correct? >> exactly. exactly. because out of one pending against saif,

. >> the chief prosecutor for the icc in the hague there. from the cnn world head quarters , i'm holly garani. >> i'm wolf blitzer. we are watching breaking news, history unfolding in libya. >> we are following breaking news. we will be in the hours ahead as developments continue. it is early monday morning there in libya. moammar gadhafi is under siege from rebel forces. the rebels say they have two of moammar gadhafi's sons captured. we have pictures of saif. the international criminal court at the hague has an arrest warrant for him. now we are told in the heart of tripoli's green square which they have renamed martyr's square. we heard moments ago that some of them are pushing back with word that gadhafi forces may be going to reenter that part of the city. the government has been saying 1,300 people have been killed over the past 12 hours. our people on the ground have seen no evidence of that though. one of our reporters with the rebels say there are no signs of pro government forces on the streets of tripoli at the moment. >> our coll

whether that means a trial in libya itself or in the hague, the headquarters of the icc. but in fact i think revolutions can get messy and that applies to revolutionary justice. >> yeah, i suspect you're right on that front, ben, given the hatred involved, given the tensions, the emotions and how many people have died in libya over these past six months. my own instinct tells me that this new leadership of libya, they're not going to hand over gadhafi or any of the sons in international criminal court. they're going to want to deal with them in libya itself, sort of like the egyptians. i don't think there was ever any intention to hand over hosni mubarak to the international criminal court. they wanted to try president mubarak in egypt and we've seen him in that cage lying on that gurney brought in over these past several days. ben, stand by. nic robertson, stand by. hala gorani is with us, michael holmes is with us. we'll continue the breaking news coverage on this historic night. what's unfolding in tripoli right now. much more of our coverage when we come back. [ oswal

. >> there's an icc bounty on his head. there's a libyan bounty on his he. it will be up to the libyan people to drink him to jesus. crashia agents on the ground are working to locate an secure mustard gas. the concern is that the weapons could fall into the hands of terrorist. >>> the u.s. is behind the push to unfreeze the assets. back in march the u. n. froze the libyan government assets as part of an effort to put pressure on muammar gadhafi to stop attacking the libyan people. >>> a california mother faces murder charges after throwing her baby from a parking garage. now her husband is speaking out an says it's not her fault. >>> the controversial coloring back about 9/11. the images critics say are too graphic for children. >>> you can see a line of traffic approaching the albany exit because of a crash. we'll tell you what's going on there, coming up. >>> a 7-month-old baby thrown from a parking garage has died and h mother is facing charges. her husband said she suffered from post partum depression and couldn't cope with the baby's condition. she's e

maybe to me the icc is the right choice maybe. but i think the libyan people do not agree with me. >> because you know a lot of libyan people would be upset if they let him leave the country given what he's done. >> my concern is the security situation. >> you're a diplomat so you have a different level of concern. his sons, seif al islam specifically he's under your control. >> that's right. >> what are you going to do with him? >> the same with his dad. >> where is he being held? >> this i don't know but i know he's under the tnc control. >> we heard today from the chairman of the house intelligence committee here in washington, mike rogers saying his major concern is the stockpiles of poisonous gas the military had, the sarin and mustard gas, the weapons of mass destruction as they used to be called. how concerned should the world be that gadhafi and his supporters may have control? >> gadhafi is unpredictable. he will do anything now. what is he going to gain to win this battle? no. but this is revenge. he just wants to kill.

we'll get a slight break. 1:mentioned, as icc there's an upper level disturbance kicking off a couple isolated thundershowers west of reading at this hour. we go for more drizzle overnight tonight. a bit wet on the roadways in the golden gate. tomorrow, nice temperatures away from the bay. 70s to low 80s, then a bit of a warming trend. the trough we've talked a lot about for the last month and a half. it's going to maybe lift to the north a little bit by monday and tuesday. that will allow high pressure to build in a touch for the workweek. we're going to go for the patchy fog, drizzle spreading right back inland. overnight lows will be in the mid-50s. 57 for a low in san jose. i'm going carbon copy for tomorrow. upper 70s, lee 80s through the santa clara valley. a little warmer, 85, 87 right near the bay. 2 is all we can manage in san mateo. 82 concord. and yes it will be another windy one. right across the bay, the breeze will be kicking up to 25 miles an hour tomorrow, on and off throughout the afternoon hours especially. monday not much change. tuesday, there's that high pressure

icc has indicted colonel gaddafi for violations against humanity. it is up to icc and the international community has a duty, all the member states of the united nations have a duty for organizations to fully comply with the decisions of icc. >> would you call colonel gaddafi to surrender? and i have another question. whether you have spoken with mr. jalil [unintelligible] >> i have called colonel gaddafi opposing forces to give weight to a smooth transition. i have spoken with the prime minister of libya during the weekend. we had a very serious talk on this matter. for the second part of your question, we will have to see how the situation evolves. but these are all very important legal situations on the part of those people who have been indicted. >> and due to the situation in tripoli, do you consider the military operation of nato over as of today? >> that, we will have to see how nato will assess the situation. nato has been instrumental in implementing a security council resolution and i recognize their efforts to avoid civilian casualties in

technically, they do not have to follow the rules of the icc in handing over muammar gadhafi. keep in mind, the bbc reporting gadhafi has fled to algeria. we have not been able to confirm that. >> heather: that made that news in june, correct? >> gregg: i think it was june 24th. tunisia 24th, algeria about a decade ago. but they never ratified it. >> maybe that's the loophole. >> we had a similar situation in the united states in which president clinton signed on and then president bush signed us on, out of concern about what would happen to american forces posted all over the world. >> gregg: so we are not a member of the international criminal court. >> right. >> heather: right now fox news military analyst major general bob scales. are you there? >> i'm here heather. >> heather: thank you for joining us. first to the news that gadhafi's son saif has been arrested. speak to us about the significance of that. >> it shows at the end of the day, i guess ground troops trumps all rumors. once they crack the egg of the outer shell the center collapses. that's what we are seeing he

i think the best bet would be to send him to the icc to be tried in a transparent and one would hope a fair trial. and i'm sure he would be guilty given his track record, his bloody track record against the libyans and against the neighbors of libya. i think this would be a great thing because this will allow the libyans to focus on the real issue. how to build a shattered country that was destroyed by the diabolic rule of this man and his family. but to waste time in retribution, in trial, look at even at egypt, a country that has a legal system at least and they're having these problems. in libya you don't even have a legal system. so what are we talking about? this is a country that needs to focus on rebuilding itself now and not just looking at the past. although, he should be held accountable, definitely. >> the pictures we're looking at right now some of the celebratory gunfire from rebels as they were storming the compound. again, the rebels say, look, we have collapsed now this compound, gadhafi's compound where we believe he's hiding. and again, all the pentagon is saying is

and then there's the other where the libyan government turned to the icc. >> have you been able to traveloutside of benghazi and meet with civil society leaders in other places? and these are the people who are telling you that they support the tnc? >> absolutely. we try to get out and about as much as possible. and meet with all sorts of people. tribal leaders, islamists, ngos, women, men all around. so benghazi but also we've headed out to the east. where we don't go for security reasons into the war zone. >> have they told you what type of government they want post-benghazi. >> democratic where they have a say in their lives which they didn't have for the last 42 years. >> a few more questions, and then we'll stop. >> sir, how do you and the other diplomatic missions with the tnc? do you coordinate your efforts. do you talk with them on a daily basis and would you recommend to the administration, to the united states administration, to epion up the embassy as soon as possible in washington so you can have better coordination? >> well, we talk to them on a daily basis. >> are you coordi

by the icc. the years. so many lives here. the whole country history really. 42 years have gone by and we have missed out on so much. so people's moral is really high. we are just waiting for it to all be over and waiting for special forces to actually come in and take over. we are very tired but still feeling very high. >> indeed we have heard that a third son of gadhafi has now been captured. >> we have waited 42 years. starting from scratch. we're a very, very patient bunch. >> indeed. >> all right. talking there. >> you certainly got the sense of how people are feeling here. >> they are short of food, fuel. the telephones still work and they have been getting their stories out to the world. >> it might be a different story if not for nato's support. a spokesperson said the intervention saved countless lives. >> responsible for stopping the bloodshed in libya are the gadhafi regime as the united nation security council resolution made very clear. the mandate for nato is to continue protecting civilians and civilian populate

the fact that the icc has recognized the national congress party as being responsible for genocide as this of it recognizes ahmed haroun, why doesn't our government recognize them in that way? there're all kinds of stories coming out of the u.n. forces who are from egypt standing by and watching the slaughter take place. they are supposed to be peacekeeping forces. they are allowing the intelligence services of the south to come in and take people out of their compound. six nuba women sought shelter and they were raped by the egyptian forces. even some of the forces are complex set with khartoum. there are internal documents that the u.n. will be forced to release about the atrocities. this should be investigated. these people should be prosecuted. they should be brought to justice. our government should get off the fence and distinguish between the victims and perpetrators of genocide. >> of what other members to be able to ask questions. it was disturbing that bashir visited beijing and rather than insuring that he was apprehended and sent to the hague where he should be held to acc

>> the understanding i get from benghazi is no way will they surrender him to the icc.r for his arrest, many within tnc and libyan population said no way, we wanted to try him, he didn't want -- of course, he did, but in their mind, atrocities they committed in libya, he and his sons, if gadhafi is captured alive and his other sons are captured alive, my suspicion is that they are not going to be handed over. we are going to try them in libya and punish them for all the crimes -- >> that's my impression as will, kyra. i think the chances of them handing over saif al islam or if they get gadhafi, handing them over are slim. i think they'll want a speedy trial in libya. the people hate these gadhafis, and they want to deal with them with libyan justice. i suspect that will unfold sooner rather than later. sir, they didn't release -- libyan state television, which was still under the control of the gadhafis last night, they released an audio statement from moammar gadhafi in which he said i am with you here, i am in tripoli. do you not believe that was an authentic audiota

>> they still haven't gotten a complete picture of the icc. we know that the guy mark duggan supposedly had a firearm on him. it wasn't discharged. the police fired two shots. he was hit in the chest and in the arm. beyond that, we haven't gotten a particularly clear picture at all. so, you know, that -- that was obviously the spark, piers, in all of this. but this snowballed way beyond that particular incident to be something much, much bigger. reports right now of disturbances up in manchester, birmingham, bristol was affected. it was bigger and not something that's different people that got involved in this. not from one particular area of london. one particular city. quite ride range of ages as a matter of fact. >>> a lot of them, you have a white face, a black face. i don't think it's a race thing at all. >> law abiding people saying these are a bunch out of control seizing this incident to try to create mayhem. is it something deeper? is it a social malaise that's created an underclass of kids who feel they have no education, no hope of

secure location in tripoli and claimed the loyalists are winning the battle and said "to hell with the icc." the international court with a warrant for his arrest. a nato spokesman urged caution in italy today. >> we have to remain vigilant and to continue to protect the civilian population. most notably, tripoli is still the site of nervous clashes between pro- and anti-gadhafi forces. the tension is far from being over. this is very, very dynamic and complex. >> according to a rebel official, the national transitional council in libya will move operations from benghazi to tripoli within two days, then begin to build a democratic government. speaking in benghazi yesterday, he said my role after the fall of gadhafi will continue unless i lose control. joining me now, nbc news correspondent and host of "andrea mitchell reports," andrea mitchell, thank now for joining us. >> it's great to be with you. what a day, what developments here in libya and at home. but most importantly, in libya. >> it's stunning, what is your reaction to gadhafi's continued defiance tonight? >> that was somewhat pr

so the best option from my vantage point is to -- for him to be icc, international community court. then this will give libyans at least the clans to focus on the real things. how to rebuild the country from scratch. you see, ron, like tunisia and egypt, the dictators fell but the structure of the country remained. libyans are going it start from scratch because gadhafi was the system. now it was a hollow system. he collapsed, the whole system is collapsed. it is functioning institutions. there are no voluntarily political social organizations. civil society was decimated. there is no legal structure. the physical structure was heavily damaged during the last six, seven months of fighting. so you have a country on paper who has lots of money in the banks in europe and united states. they have oil reserves, but it will take a great deal of political organization and an orderly situation in the country to start the process of transition. this is what you call now transition blues. and transitions are going to be extremely difficult because have you a country where politics ceases to e

he is already under icc indictment for crimes against his own people. be delivered up to international justice? will he be given exile? what happens to his two sons who are in rebel custody? will others be taken? what kind of revolutionary justice will be meted out in the streets over the next few days? those questions are still very much on answered. they will be some of the most pressing for the u.s. government and others over the next few weeks. host: it has been 20 years since the russian in the ussr. we started this discussion looking at foreign policy issues and about how everything you think you know about the collapse is wrong looking at the 20th anniversary. do you think washington would have fought russia would be where it is today? what lesson did we learn from that as we look to places like libya and the arab spring? guest: it is so irrelevant that we look back at this history. -- it is so relevant that we look back to this history. things do not change as quickly as we hope. we're revolution start and not worthy and -- where a revolution st

he claimed the loyalists are winning the bat am and said quote to held with the icc. there's a warrant for his arrest. nato spokesman to urge -- in italy today. >> we have to remain vigilant and to continue to partake the civilian -- protect the civilian population. tripoli is still the site of clashes between koe and anti-gadhafi forces and the tension is far from being over. very, very dynamic and complex. >> according to a rebel official, the national transitional council in libya will move operations from ben gaz toy tripoli within two days. they will begin to build a democratic government through the leadership of mustafa skra little. speaking in benghazi, he said my role will continue unless i lose control. joining me now, nbc news foreign affairs correspondent and host of the andrea mitchell reports, andrea mitchell. thank you for joining me. >> my pleasure. great to be with you. what a day. what developments in libya and of course here at home. most importantly in libya. >> it's stunning. what is your reaction to gadhafi's continued defines tonight? >> i think

of course, exactly what we saw in iraq with saddam hussein who also had an arrest warrant with the icc. it remains to be seen. at this point, the fighting is still raging, not just at the compound where gadhafi perhaps is but also in the district that is still under gadhafi control. by the way, the entire town of sert is still under loyalist control. so we are still a ways away from this being over. >> libya is so different than when we try to compare it to iraq with the people resooifding in libya. it is tribally divided. in iraq it was religiously diversified between shiites and sunnis. explain to all of us as we watch the people there trying to absorb this and drink this in so desperate for their freedom, how do they trust the filter of corruption from the top? >> yes, well, gadhafi came to power in a military coup and spent the last four decades making sure nothing like that would happen to him. there's no centralized government. there's no strong military base as there was say in egypt. you have about 100 different tribes, different loyalties, the military itself is broken along t

as we've been discussing, we all thought the rebels had reported the icc, the international criminal courts confirmed, we believed, that he was in the custody of the rebels. but he's not. he's free and he's driving around tripoli. >> it does raise into question the credibility of statements by the rebels, unquestionably. what do you think is really going on here? how much question believe? how much is spin from the rebels? do you believe that either of these sons were ever in proper custody? or were we just spun some yarn here? >> it's difficult to say. one correspondent has been here much longer than me, said that, you know, the thing about libya, the trouble with reporting it is that kind of lying is the national sport. obviously, that was a little tongue-in-cheek. but the fact is that both sides in this conflict have been spinning us a line. both sides have been exaggerating. both sides have been telling us untruths. and it's been very difficult all along, for the past six months, it's been very difficult, sort of picking through that and trying to get to the truth or as close to

you know, the icc guarantees, he can't trust that he's not -- get immunity that anyone promises hill.you'll see more fights an the united states, britain, italy, none will be able to come to the table and bring forward a solution. you're going to see other players coming in more and more. the russians trying to play a role in this. it's difficult to see if anyone can find a deal with both gadhafi and the rebels that would satisfy anyone. >> now, if gadhafi emerges from this in power, isn't that a terrible black eye for the west? having this shoved down their throat? >> absolutely. not only undermine the credibility of nato but a devastating message to the millions of arab protesters calling for freedom and liberation. you asked me how the assad regime is doing. if gadhafi can survive six months with a relentless campaign by nato, a punishing campaign in the last few months, the entire international community against that, you can imagine how long it will take for the protesters in syria to basically punch a nail in the coffin of this syrian regime. not to mention, they are deeply divi

the hints being that icc itself should be looking to investigate nato commanders on the ground. >> ilearly denounce these allegations. i can assure you that we have conducted and we will continue to conduct our operations in strict conformity with the u.n. mandate, and that is to protect civilians against attacks. and the fact is that since we took responsibility for this operation, we have carried out more than 20,000 sortees, more than 8,000 air strikes. we have taken out more than 5,000 military units that could be used to attack civilians. and so far we have no confirmed information that we have caused civilian casualties. and that's a great success. >> just how much longer do you believe nato will be needed in libya? >> we will continue our operation as long as necessary to protect civilians against attacks. hopefully we are in the very, very final phase of this operation. but we want to make sure that we fully implement the u.n. mandate, so we will continue our operation until no threat against the civilian population in libya exists. >> and that could be days, weeks, or even m

men wanted by the international criminal court, and it is wise for the libyans to deliver them to the icc, the international criminal court, instead of doing justice by themselves and hanging gadhafi and his son just like in the past like the iraqis had done to saddam hussein. it will be very important to be wise and slow down enough to take justice in their own hands, and really, i have a lot of people in the national transitional council and i trust their sense of where we are going, and this is a historic moment for them and they definitely don't want to lose it. >> all right. thank you very much for your time and analysis. thank you. >> thank you. >>> and oil prices around the world have already started to fall as gadhafi's regime topples, and prices are expected to slide more and we will tell you what to expect in a half hour. as we told you earlier today, the congressional black jobs tour comes to florida and it follows cleveland and detroit and where job fairs attracted thousands of people literally lining up around the corner. members of the congressional black caucus has question

i know what you are thinking, what kind of icc drinking? this man is having a conversation before heading off to take care of some important business. hopper this man, let's just say he has a pretty colorful language. i thought that castro was all about tolerance. how did i mention he is naked, just like the rest of the men i showed you. that left some people literally speechless. >> do most people just hang out naked in san francisco? >> just about any day of the week it is not uncommon at seeing a naked man let it all hang out. for some people that have become an attraction and for some, an eyesore. this family from iowa had this to say. >> i like it. >> apparently in san francisco, as long as you are not committing a lewd acts, you do not have to wear any clothing. if you wear sagging pants, you go to jail, but the naked in public and you get to sit on a log tape. >> the only problem i have, it is always the wrong people who have their clothes on. >> in san francisco, stanley roberts, kron 4 news. >> did you notice that stanley never sho

so that's a possibility if the rebels hand him over to the icc. himself has relied on his son to runs parts of -- it's been a family-run business. >> so how vulnerable, knick, is the father, moammar gadhafi now that his sons have been captured? >> it's really heart to calculate at the moment. there's a lot of rumors he may have left the country, left the capital, but the fact that three sons were picked up so quickly when the rebels, seems to indicate they were outstarted, outmaneuvered. gadhafi's regime have been surrounded by sycophants, that people that love them and say everything will be okay. so they seem to be outmaneuvered and outsmarted by the pace of events, which suggests if gadhafi was thinking of going somewhere else rather than fighting to the end as he said, that perhaps he too has been outmaneuvered and is hunkered down somewhere in one of those government loyalists controlled areas. but it's all supposition. >> and you spent a considerable amount of time with the rebel forces as well. do you have any idea what they might do with t

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the icc, international criminal court issued arrest warrants for gadhafi months ago.e they saying today about moving forward with the case against him? >> there's many aspects to the international system and the international criminal prosecutor maurice ocampo spoke with officials by phone to go over is the next stop for moammar gadhafi if apprehended the hague to face charges, the arrest warrants against gadhafi and his son, the intelligence chief? that is unknown whether libya will set up its own tribunal or gadhafi will be sent to the hague like milosevic or charles taylor though it's quite slow there. ban ki-moon in effect warning or reminding u.n. member countries of their obligations to live up to this international criminal court treaty system where he can't be allowed to really stay in a country if they're a party to this international criminal court system. gadhafi could be seeking refuge elsewhere. brooke? >> we heard and i took note of the president speaking earlier mentioning the u.n., the next general assembly asking next month's meeting support the speci

pressuring china and russia and the security council to pass a resolution, referring back to icc. you need a champion to lead that effort and we hope the u.s. will continue leading the effort internationally. in a strong establishment to keep the country together the day after. that is why you were calling upon the military. one of the feasible scenarios being articulated, regardless of the probability, when things reach a cliff, top army generals will not fall off the cliff. they will arrested the chief said the intelligence. -- of intelligence. some of the tribal leaders on the eastern side of the country. bring on board some of the civil society and respected figures in syria. to form some kind of a transitional council or a national council that will lead to a second stage until we have a referendum or a constitution. that is one of the most probable scenario is when things reach a tipping point, which we hope will be soon. >> i will try to be brief. as i indicated, i think the administration is right to be cautious. continue to be a bit cautious. you know, a regime like this

important is it that gaddafi and other people in his family that had been wanted for arrest by the icc come out of this alive, and what exactly vis thedo these ovis-a- rebels to be ensure that this happens? >> roland has answered that question to some extent already. this is for the libyan people to decide the fate of those who have been indicted for crimes against humanity and other serious crimes by the international criminal court. what is important is that the transition in libya is to add space that is democratic -- to a space that is democratic, that respects human rights, the rule of law, that is based on reconciliation and not violence or retribution. but obviously, the rule of law is important and must be respected. we welcome the statement made in the last few days by the leadership of the national transitional council. i think those statements are very clear, and the roadmap that they have already presented to the contact group is also very clear and very welcome. we have one last fall up, over there -- one last follow-up, over there. >> when you say no nato boots on the gro

quite incredible because i mean, as we've been discussing, we all thought the rebels had reported, the icc, international criminal courts in the hague, had confirmed, we believed, he was in the custody of the rebels. he's not, he's free and driving around tripoli. one correspondent that's been here much longer than me said that, you know, the thing is about libya, the trouble is with reporting it, is that kind of lying is the national sport. obviously it was a little tongue in cheek. but, you know, the fact is both sides in this conflict have been, you know, spinning us a line, both sides have been exaggerating, both sides have been telling us untruths, and it's been very difficult, all along, for the whole -- for the past six months it's been difficult picking through that and trying to get to the truth or as close to it as we can. this was another, you know, really vivid example of that. >> of course the most disturbing part of this, saif gadhafi, was supposedly running the country in the place of his father. he was his closest political adviser and there were reports that the internatio

and the fact that the icc recognize the leadership of the national islamic front or the national congress party as being responsible for genocide and specifically recognized ahmed her room, why doesn't our government recognize them in that way? with regard to the u.n. forces, they're all kinds of stories coming out in no of the u.n. forces who were from egypt in kadugli standing by watching the slaughter take place and they are supposed to be peacekeeping forces, allowing the intelligence services of the south to come in and take people out of their compounds. there was one incident where six nuba women sought shelter in it, found and they were raped by the egyptian forces. so it seems as even some of the forces and i know it is not true for all of them, are complicit with khartoum. there is internal documents from the u.n. that i'm told are -- at the u.n. is actually being forced to release very soon because even some members of the u.n. where victim of these atrocities. so, they this should be investigated. these people should be prosecuted and the u.n. and brought to justice. our gover

one is wanted by the icc, an arrest warrant was issued in june for crimes against humanity.ow, what we know about the situation on the ground in libya, the forces loyal to the libyan dictator have tanks now stationed near his compound in central tripoli and are resisting rebel attacks. the situation there unstable. there's gunfire, of course, everywhere and as you said, opposition forces now in control of 95% of that city, sweeping in quickly yesterday covering just about 20 miles in a matter of hours. we've heard from u.k. prime minister david cameron who says regime is falling apart and that qaddafi must resign. here's what he had to say. >> our task now is to do all we can to support the will of the libyan people which is for an effective transition to a free democratic and inclusive libya. this will be and must be and should be libyan led and a libyan owned process. >> u.k. prime minister david cameron. now, the future depends on a number of things. how soon muammar qaddafi steps aside and then, of course, the tribal region, how quickly they can work together and begin t

pressuring china and russia and the security council to pass a resolution, referring back to icc. you need a champion to lead that effort and we hope the u.s. will continue leading the effort internationally. in a strong establishment to keep the country together the day after. that is why you were calling upon the military. one of the feasible scenarios being articulated, regardless of the probability, when things reach a cliff, top army generals will not fall off the cliff. they will arrested the chiefof intelligence. some of the tribal leaders on the eastern side of the country. bring on board some of the civil society and respected figures in syria. to form some kind of a transitional council or a national council that will lead to a second stage until we have a referendum or a constitution. that is one of the most probable scenario is when things reach a tipping point, which we hope will be soon. >> i will try to be brief. as i indicated, i think the administration is right to be cautious. continue to be a bit cautious. you know, a regime like this one, has wiped out civil so

the duty of all members of the united nations, has a duty to fully comply with the decisions of the icc. that is the nature of the court. >> would you call on colonel gaddafi to surrender, and have you talked to -- to see if there is a way out for gaddafi and his forcie? >> i have already called for to givegaddafi's foces way. and i have spoken over the weekend, and we had a very serious talk on this matter. and for the second part of your question, that will have to see how the situation will devolve. -- evolve. these are all important legal obligations of people who have been indicted. >> do to the situation in tripoli, key you consider the military operation of nato over as of today? >> we will have to see how nato will assess the situation. nato has been instrumental in implementing this security council resolution 1973, and i recognize their efforts to avoid civilian casualties in the course of their military operations. this is up to nato, based on the assessment of the situation. >> the united states believes that colonel gaddafi is still in libya. does anybody from your side in

questions that must be answered and i assure the house that this is being independently investigated by the iccwe must get to the bottom of what happened. initially there was a peaceful demonstrations following his death and understandably and appropriately that police were cautious about how they dealt with it. however, this was then used as an excuse by opportunist thugs in days, then across london and in other cities, and it is completely wrong to say that there was any justifiable causal link. it is prosperous for anybody to suggest that people were looting still -- the and people score -- dealing televisions -- that was not about politics or protests. it was about theft. in recent days, individual officers have showed incredible bravery and have worked around the clock, and they deserve our support and thanks. but became clear early this week was that there were far too few police deployed, and the tactics they were using were not working. police chiefs have been frank with me about what this happen. initially the police treated the situation too much as a public order issue rather than on