you then went into the private sector at icl.e about that — you say that you discovered, at icl — which was, again, at the time, was a leading technology company... oh, it was our national pride. yes. you said, "i discovered what is now known as the glass ceiling. "it was an excellent company, "but i felt unable to grow the kernels that were in me." so, what did you mean at the time by "glass ceiling"? i think i was getting soft, mild discrimination. women did not do this, no, i could not apply for promotion there, no, it was not suitable for me to be talking about marketing, i was technical, and generally feeling that i was not allowed to expand from being a technical person to what i became, a manager. i hope a good manager, i've really worked very hard at that. but the fact that doors were closed or were very, very hard to open really made me quite assertive, aggressive — i believe in equal pay, i will carry my own things, i will do my own things, and that set a tone perhaps for what was going on in the rest of the world. well