>> yes this is a indirectly imlum naited signs and we have different regulations. >> right and we have special permit requirements for illuminated signs and non illuminated signs as well, and this is one -- we have two forms and form four and seven -- signed permit forms and basically the same as other building permits and the owner's representative submits information and issued to the building owner and the sign permit as far as we are concerned is the property of the building owner and there are big court cases and issues and who owns the actual sign. the permit is always -- and the responsibility for maintaining the property including the sign is the property of the building owner. we have a question here? >> illuminated sign is same as neon sign? >> yeah and neon sign and illuminated and you could have something like this and light prosjected on the sign and that is indirectly illuminated. >> are there certain areas neon signs are prohibited? >> yeah and controls and residential sign and not allowed to have them. >> and (inaudible) and no signs. >> i can check the controls and it