anyhow, they were incumbents. they were way ahead in the polls, and they had no reason to debate, and they just said no. there was no way of putting pressure on them. and the only reason they started again in 1976 was because gerald ford, who was the incumbent but, he was 20 points behind. and i interviewed him about this. i asked him, why did you do? he said, it was the only chance i had to gain ground on jimmy carter. because otherwise going the regular way wasn't going the work. so he challenged carter to the debate which was unheard of. and carter agreed. and he, they came within three points. i mean, it worked from -- then ford, of course, had a problem in one of the debates where he said the soviet union didn't dominate eastern europe. that hurt him. but, basically, the debates helped him gain ground big time on, on carter. and, but more importantly, it established the fact of presidential debates. there were, you know, and no candidate now could ever, ever say, no, no, no, i'm not, i'm not going to do presi

well you know the entire angle of going after an incumbent is you look at incumbents record you know you hope to poke holes in that you hope to say things aren't doing so well the problem is newt gingrich has a record of his own that's at least as problematic as barack obama's and you know all the old it be obama campaign really has to do is play back newt's own statements play back his contradictions play back the fact that if newt going to attack him on health care reform he supported an individual mandate he supported marijuana legalization you know he supported all of these things i mean if you put together all of newt gingrich's liberal statements all together in one person you end up with al gore so you know i mean it's going to be very tough for newt gingrich to come up with a consistent statement that says he's different from barack obama he's the solid conservative and he's the one who should be elected his his own record is at least as bad and perhaps worse than what some of the things that you know in my opinion not obama's fault but has had that have happened during the c

the problem is you have companies going in to compete in markets, but we compete against an incumbent who has all kinds of guaranteed government subsidization through this program. if you're a rate of return carrier, you have a guaranteed profit, guaranteed by the united states government and state governments all over the country. but yet we don't. we have to make a profit from a market base. we have to borrow capital in the private markets, a rate of return can egoto the rural utility services. these are just forces you can't compete with, so as an industry committed to the competitive principle, we wanted to see more of that eliminated. like let's, you know, we agree with the government subsidizing the hardest-served areas, but if everybody who wants to compete wants to show up and try, why should the government, once again, sanction a privilege for incumbency? and the only argument that really won out to the extent that it won out there was because they're already invested and, god forbid, they should have to lose some money as part of this government dislocation. it's really a po

it's an incumbent polling at 42%?nent is polling below that number. because usually the undecided voter breaks for the challenger, instead of the incumbent. but in this case, the incumbent's challenger is at 49%. 7 points ahead with only 6% undecided. republicans know how much trouble they are in in massachusetts in that senate race, which is why karl rove's group is running this ad against elizabeth warren. >> the first thing i'm going to promise is that i'm going to be a voice of middle class families. >> they are bailing out the same banks that bailed out the financial meltdown. middle class americans lost out. later, warren went on a charm offensive with some of the same banks that got bailed out. tell professor warren, we need jobs, not more bailouts and bigger government. >> joining me now for an exclusive interview, massachusetts elizabeth warren. thank you for joining me tonight, professor. >> thank you for having me. >> i can tell in that afact ad that they are using the word professor as an insult, as someth

not you, but incumbents. most of them anyway. what do you make of that?od to put everybody in jeopardy, rick, regardless of party. this isn't ideology. this isn't partisanship. this is wide-spread anger with washington and people want change. they want vast change. >> rick: as doug said, this isn't partisan. if you look at the numbers, the breakdown according to party, 58% of people who identify themselves as republicans say incumbents should be gone. 56% of democrats, 53% of independents. they say the member is not being institution, why do you think that is? >> this is a large anti-incumbent movement out there but it should be a wake-up call for republicans because most of them are saying the gridlock in congress is the republican responsibility. 40% say that. doug knows, the final makeup of congress will depend on the state of economy on the election day and who the eventual republican nominee is. that is the key because of the coattails of the presidential race. >> rick: doug, 40% of people blame republican leadership for a lack of anything serious ge

a record distrust of anti -- of incumbents. anti-incumbent sentiment. taxes. it continues to be.ven toward the end of the year, this fight in washington over the payroll tax. it went on and on. is this people paying their fair share or wealth distribution and socialism? this kind of debate went on. and we kept hearing about crises all year long. whether it was the debt ceiling or going down to the end of the year when thoughts were about another government closure which was averted. >> and yet as somebody who covers politics, take us back -- i mean, because i try to think 20 years ago we had a recession. we had a president who was struggling with it. we had an election around the corner. and yet this is not as clear, the politics. i mean, nobody can say for sure the president is absolutely in trouble and nobody can say where we're going next year. it's a lot muddier. >> even though president obama's approval ratings are low, when you look at congressional approval ratings, you are talking at 12%. this is an issue the voters are angry with people in office, and this is of course,

he knows he has the machine behind him, that it's tough to unseat an incumbent.ill do everything they can and drag every voter they can out, and they'll play dirty. he has the bully pulpit. it's going to be very hard. congress has such a low approval rating, he can run against them, but a two-month payroll tax cut extension, the fact that the president thinks this will health department economy, it's a joke. >> why are you calling george will the preeminent voice on the conservative side? >> because i was reading my notes. >> that's wrong. >> okay, eric bolling. >> the conservative talk show host who probably has a bigger audience than george will, and they say, by the way, pick a republican because that's the one that's going to beat obama. >> he wants them to not throw it away, and he's feeling that it's going to be close, a gore/bush thing all over again, republicans that blew it in years past, so he's staying, get it together and don't get cocky. >> that's why they've taken on newt gingrich. he was a dangerous person. i'll go to the tease, but i got to say, t

one wonders how incumbency plays in the cycle we're headed into right now. >> well, most of the incumbents, as always, will be fine. but something does seems to have fundamentally changed here and the whole place seems to have come unglued. last night in a private caucus meeting of the house republicans, you had ten members get up there and compare themselves to braveheart, the sort of mel gibson character fighting the english nobility. when you have a caucus that is governed by that kind of thinking, you know, and the public is going to look at this and say, look, these aren't reasonable people running our country. >> well, it's better because a couple months ago, they were comparing themselves to "the town." >> passions were high on the floor of the house today. i'll give you an example. democratic congressman john lewis had strong words for republicans. here it is. >> what is happening here today is shameful, it is a disgrace, it is unreal, it is unbelievable. we can do better. if we fail today, how will you face your neighbor? family who are suffering. where's your compassion?! where's

barack obama and other incumbents might have an easier time. again, the paradox is that so many in america are struggling so little is being done. the republican party especially seems to be dragging their heels. >> thank you for being with us. >> thank you very much. >> you are watching "bbc world news america" still to come -- scientists have discovered new planets outside of our solar system but it is one that might have supported life that is sparking real interest. the president of the philippines has declared a national calamity in the south of the country following this weekend's devastating storms which killed nearly a thousand people. authorities have begun burying bodies in mass graves as facilities have become overwhelmed and they are running out of supplies. >> the dead keep coming. this a funeral parlor is one of many which is completely full of bodies, victims of the floods. it is getting so bad that the authorities have come up with a drastic alternative. >> the funeral parlors are refusing to it >> the dead bodies. we have had t

incumbent. >> romney at 38.ed you, who's the only republican presidential candidate with a degree in economic? the answer, youranswer, your fr mine, bud i roemer. he has an mba in finance from harvard. impressive. we'll be right back. you are watching "the daily rundown," only on msnbc.  total access - to everything. from idea toresearc. including financials, indicators and real-time streaming quotes. whether you eck your investments every day or every minute, our app can take them from thought to trade. at scottrade, seven-dollar trades are just the start. try our powerful mobile app. it's another reason more investors are saying... i'm with scottrade. living with the pain of moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis... could mean living with joint damage. help stop the damage before it stops you with humira. for many adults with moderate to severe ra, humira's proven to help relieve pain and stop joint damage. humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. serious, sometimes fat

a lot of the incumbents who are doing this stuff have to be punished.e have been to be consequences in politics. and the public can do that. even with the money perverting the system, the public can still do that. >> what about the jergerrymandeg that allows the politicians to draw their own districts to guarantee that the only way you can get rid of an incumbent will be with a primary challenge and that a primary challenge is basically a very high-risk act, particularly for a well-established incumbent, where the political establishment doesn't want you to engage. and we were told 2010, excuse me, was one of the biggest wave rejection elections in recent american history, and in that election, more than 75 of the congressional seats did not change hands, because of the gerrymandering. and i just don't see how we're not pushing people into yet another rigged system. >> that's another disgrace in our american political system, that we let the political parties decide the lines, rather than an independent commission. there are a few states that have an in

political gerrymandering for purposes of incumbents should be illegal.so incumbents auctioning their district to keep their jobs should be illegal. any rational kindergarten should agree with that, though we don't allow for it. folks signed the pledge? >> every single republican signed the pledge. cuomo signed pinpoi eed it. >> that's fantastic. but? >> then they wink at each other. the governor, the decent governor, but without fire for real change in his belly, has to go in and make deals with the two leaders. so nothing happens. he says he'll veto it, but so did smith, so did roosevelt, and nothing is changed. now, it's not in the league of the change that relates to campaign finance reform. let's just look at our newly elected governor. >> so you're saying the gerrymandering debate is tiddlywinks compared to campaign finance. >> not in the same league. but let's just look at it. the governor was elected and he had his first session in the first six months of the year. he's not exactly running for re-election yet. this is what happened. 245 llcs, all

the american people look at the incumbent president to blame when the economy turns south.r or not you call it depression or recession or mild recovery, the american people are hurting. they are not happy about it. clearly they are cranky about politics which is one of the reasons the republican nomination process seems interesting. i think it's chop pir waters for president obama to be re-elected. >> monica: very interesting guys. merry christmas to both of you. >>> coming up, tim tebow was mocked on and off the field of being open about his christian faith. boomer sizeman is here to give his take. and he is going to teach me how to throw a football or at least he will try. and the great american panel is straight ahead. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. lord of the carry-on. sovereign of the security line. you never take an upgrade for granted. and you rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay th mid-size price. i deserve this. [ male announcer ] you do, business p

because he was the incumbent. so bill clinton was helped by perot in 1992. >> some analysis of the numbers of supporters suggest that 70% of the perot voters had voted for george bush in 1998. >> 1988. 1988. excuse me. we have a couple of minutes left. to the second caller, the caller's second question. i want to pay a clip and this is our last one of the evening. this is one from ross perot's infomercials that he purchased before the 1992 election. and the 30-minute commercial in october, the first one he did, october of 1992, and he looks ahead from 1992 to the year 2020. let's listen. >> let's look at the growth of federal spending and see if there's a trend here. go on to 1950, there's obviously a trend here. we've gone up to 25% of our gross national product. that's excessive. and hold on to your hat. if you and i don't aaction now as owners of this country, the forecast shows that by the year 2020, federal spending will be 41% of the gross national product. we can't take 25%. we certainly can't take 41%. it'

it's just always been the case and even when it's counterintuitive, it tends to hurt incumbents.ever like third-party candidates. >> but it's not going to be gary johnson. maybe if it's a michael bloomberg who has $1 billion to throw atç a presidential race t there's no signs he's considering it. >> no signs at all. dwyane wade and lebron james of 2012, john heilemann, mark halpren, thank you for joining us. >>> after the break vice president joe biden and mitt romney are squaring off. that's next. that's good morning, veggie style. hmmm [ male announcer ] for half the calories -- plus veggie nutrition. could've had a v8. >>> team obama isç shaping its campaign strategy around the middle class with a message that says companies, specifically mitt romney, will not save the american dream. joining our panel now the man behind the magic, the reverend al sharpton, host of "politics nation" on msnbc. it's a pleasure to have you. >> always blood to be with you. >> so joe biden sort of went on the attack against mitt romney and accused him of embracing policies that would basically gu

>> i think it's beyond weird. >> i mean, isn't it incumbent upon the attorney general to find out whoid it, how high up? because this has been going on for ten months. >> but notice what he does. notice what happens. he appear points an inspector general. greta, you are an attorney, you know if you do something false in front of a judge, don't appoint someone to investigate it, you correct it immediately. he's hiding behind the inspector general trying to buy time saying let's wait until the investigation. >> how long does that take? >> the next election cycle, i can promise you that. >> that's appalling. has the inspector general been summoned to congress? >> no. she's a former d. o. j., a prosecutor. again -- >> why down haul her up there and say who is the highest rankling person making these very bad decisions and is that person still in the justice department, is he still capable of making equally bad decisions in because according to what holder said yesterday, there could be many more people who are hurt by this, who will die by this. >> well, there will be. and your question i

he was put into a 24-year incumbent in a 71% district and one their election? me. i voted as an 81% conservative rating in that district. here are two folks to win statewide elections. who was able to win an election in a democratic state as a conservative? he was able to win an election as a conservative between the three folks who have won statewide? me. he was able to win a swing state, a state that would be essential and possible -- impossible to win in order to win the presidency. me. he defeated a docratic incumbent to win a swing state his campaign was managed by james carville? me. he was able to get reelected in a swing state after having a 93% conservative voting record, being the leader of all pro- life issues and the united states senate, where reforming the welfare system and ending the entitlement, and lead on national-security issues to strengthen ourilitary. in a year that george bush lost by five and a person won michigan -- won by six, me. i find it interesting that with almost 1 million more registered democrats than republicans against an incumb