ukraine, and so that is something that obviously has got the ukrainian government in a state of indig nance, as has the parade of prisoners of war that took place on sunday and a further announcement that it wants to humanitarian convoy. but he took the line although he is extremely unhappy about russia's behavior, he is still prepared under any circumstances to talk peace with putin and to try at least to make some kind of progress. >> as you say there, lots of tension still between kiev and moscow. what kind of level of hope is there for movement on the crisis in ukraine? >> well, most people seem to be pet pessimistic about the prospects of this meeting really delivering anything. being somewhat defiant mood. noises were coming from the european movement about the need to recognize the fact that a purely military victory is perhaps unrealistic, some kind of compromise needs to be reached. at least in terms of his public statements, he seems to be saying everything that putin doesn't want to hear, particularly concerning the association agreement with the european union which is something

it's precisely that sense of indig nance at that kind of petty -- >> just to dis agragree with thy youhis up, i still think there is still a lot of possible discussion and ability to work together amongst democrats and -- >> i do. >> -- and libertarians. >> i agree. >> look, there's always been -- there's been a kind of a tension within the right, within conservatives between law and order conservatives and government skeptic conservatives. that's in there for a long time. i think that's -- i think that tension is actually even greater now. you know, about -- >> i think the non law and order side, the sort of government skeptic is ascended in some way. >> yes, is ascended. i could agree with that. >> the law and order side comes back whenever there's race at issue and that's where the law and order side really in some ways found their first footing during reagan, nixon, and goldwater, the whole law and order conservative movement in some sense came to power precisely in reaction to the civil right s movement. it's not surprising we see an ascendant law and order movement again in respo