and judith talks about it in the book, indra noovi talks about incredible gymnastics in her mind to try to make it work at home. it's not easy stuff. >> when you were at the white house doing the forum, you also had a woman there ceo of b.e.t., when they offered her a job, they asked her to name her salary. what happened? >> she named something way too low. >> a million dollars. >> that is what women do, we depreciate ourselves in real time. but this is something we've got to learn to do that men do really well. they are over confident and make up stuff they think they can bring to the table. then they say it and you know what -- >> sound good saying it by the way. >> they sound great saying it. i have found when you actually -- over compensate in terms of value, i can do this and that, chances are you can. >> what was the defining moment where you really said, okay, it's not just work, it's also home. >> i always say that to myself and trying to figure out, how, how. it's still a struggle actually. i have no solution or pretty bow at the end of the book. there are moments -- the book s