is the book that you can maybe tell people about this is basically about using this informatiousingdisinformation ag purposefully. it's not that he is saying some that's false without knowing it. it's a strategy and that is what this book is about. wrong information -- >> guest: it persuasion is a world where the facts don't matter and he's recommending this as a test to understand his father-in-law but he extracts from this controversy over bates method. if this controversy and basically you are telling the truth or enough of the truth in discussion about it that will elevate the message. the example of trump going out and saying the best economy in the world and all of history, going back to the roman empire or something. that's the way it is. and kushner says okay, everyone knows literally that's true that in the 50s the economy was better and then all the fact checkers come around and found like they are nitpicking on something. and an average person looks around and says the economy is quite good. this is before the virus and everyone attacking the president is unfair. the controversy over bate