what would be proactively insenting a company? >> guest: ironically, when president obama released the cyberspace policy review which was in may of 2009, he, in his own documents cited a number of these things. we're talking about using liability inacceptabilityives, -- incentives, talking about using procurement inventives. the president, at that time in 2009, suggested we needed to provide tax incentives. we think we can also use streamlined regulation. we can do more to bring the insurance industry into the cybersecurity equation. what we need to do is get organizations to invest more in cybersecurity to go a step that is frankly beyond what is demanded by their corporate commercial interests and reach a security level that is the national interest, and those are different things. >> host: gautham nagesh, the hill newspaper. >> guest: thank you. now, you spoke about the private sector's reaction to the plan. the white house has taken great pains to cast this proposal not as a regulatory model, but as a collaboration with the pr

we've been you seduced by tax policies that insent leverage rather than the building of equity.nd that leverage benefits not the consumer, but the lender. that really is what the crisis was about. even as we are starting to talk about dodd-frank and the implementation of rules that go with it, and the building of more rational standards for housing policy, we're still not willing to have the larger discussion about what rational housing policy should be, who it should benefit, how it should be implemented. does tax code have to be considered as something we need to address with it? and instead, we've got right back to where we were. this comingling of social policy with financial markets. and that's a very toxic brew. when you start handing the opportunity for social policy goals and subsidies to be delivered through private market players, there's going to be money that doesn't meet it's intended target. where historically, the lending for first time home buyers, buyers who had limited access, special buyers were sometimes delivered directly through government programs. and if

so we are insented to have early, often contact with our customer and it works. under some of the new proposals you're looking at is taking and cutting the servicing fees for your performing loans because they say you don't need to deal with them. that will drive me out of the business because it's a break-even business as it is. and they're looking at, in my opinion, rewarding the bad players by paying them more to service and to modify those loans. well, i think that's kind of a perverse relationship and it will drive bad behavior. in my opinion you shouldn't be rewarded for making bad loans and paying people more to service bad loans. so we would be in favor of some servicing standards that would drive that. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> mr. hopkins, and ms. schwartz, as we've heard from professor swire's testimony, results of serviceers' mistakes takes time and diligence. to help correct mistakes sooner, can borrowers access their servicing records and mortgage files to ensure that payments and fees are being applied appropriately? mr. hopkins. >> yes, they

does make a serious down payment on the deficit reduction we need and gives each party a strong insentive to get a balanced plan done before the end of the year and mostly will it ends the crisis that washington imposed on the rest of america and ensures we will not face this same kind of crisis in six months or eight months or 12 months. and it will begin to lift the cloud of debt and the cloud of uncertainty that hangs over our economy. now this process has been messy. it has taken far too long. i have been concerned about the impact that it has had on business confidence and consumer confidence and the economy as a whole over the last month. nevertheless, ultimately the leaders of both party found their way to compromise and i want to thank them for that and most of the all, i want to thank the american people teams been your voices, your letters, your emails, your tweets, your phone calls, that have compelled washington to act in the final days and the american people's voice is a very powerful thing. we're not done yet. i want to urge members of both parties to dot right thing and su

each time the republican demands have been met and with each success their insent vised to employ the strategy again. this has become the new normal in washington. what we get are all of these self-created crisises every few months and abnormal insidious means of producing public policy. joining us now is eugene robinson from the "washington post." msnbc contributor. good to see you. >> good to be here. >> am i being hyper bollic. is this new and distinct, this kind of brand of self imposition of crisis? or is in the way the system always works? it has certainly escalated, chris. look, this government, our political system has always worked best with a tight deadline. things tend not to get done until they have to get done. but, you are right that this is different. there was a famous quote from rahm iman yul when he was chief of staff a couple of years ago to the affect of what a shame it would be to waste a crisis. the republicans have learned never waste a crisis, just make the crisis and use it to their advantage. they seem to be perfecting the technique. >> what episode of this -

and that is that there is an insent iive now for presidentias candidates and all politicians to narrow cast their commune cases, their engagement with the public rather than broadcasting it. i'm sure that many of you have heard the term microtargetting. it's something that during the 2004 presidential election that the bush really perfected. again, every politician and obama did the same thing. the ability to microtarget very narrow messages. individualize and personalize to each individual voter. reflects changes in the information environment and changes in computing and statistical power. sometimes often people don't actually realize when you register to vote that information is now after the help america vote act, collected into a statewide database. it is then passed along to the parties and the candidates. those data files contain your name, address, and in a lot of states your party registration and most states were your turn out history. if you voted in the last election and previous election and the election before that. to that information, the parties and candidates marry in

that is, do you believe that a majority of the employers will be insent vised to stop providing health insurance as a result of the employer mandate and penalties under the law? >> we think that employees will continue to offer and, in fact, the rate of officers by small businesses will increase now and certainly when the exchanges are online in 2014. >> okay. >> i think there's a number of studies from rand and the urban institute that also make that projection. >> okay. if you could submit those to the committee, i'd like to read those. thank you. >> thank you, senator hatch. >> thank you, mr. chairman, and thank you, mr. larsen, for your testimony. i appreciate the work your office is doing, and i do hear from my constituents about how frustrated and concerned they are that their insurance premiums obviously continue to rise. in your experience, can you tell me what are the top three reasons that health insurance continues to have such large increases in rates? >> well, there's a number of different reasons. the insurance companies would indicate they are simply passing along health

it hasn't been giving employers insentive to hire workers. that should be ended. >> host: okay. it sounded like, diana, s&p made the right call. is that true? is that the right call to downgrade the united states? >> guest: i think the united states has substantial fiscal problems. i would not say s&p made the right call in that we are going to continue to pay the interest on our debt. there's no danger of us defaulting. moody made another call. i don't think the problems in the market are due to the s&p downgrade, but the fundamental economic problems. if the s&p today said, okay, we made a mistake, giving you back your aaa rating, i don't think markets would go up. the problems were caused by the gdp downgrade and the poor employment report last friday. >> host: okay, s&p make the right call? >> guest: it didn't do favors with this decision. there is nothing new here. the economy is weak. we have fiscal problems. we have to focus on jobs and growth, and we know the policymakers have to have a plan in motion to reduce the long term deficit, the structural deficit, the lack of r