i walked out of the lab and spent a lot of time working with lawyers, with activists, learning how to teach in public policy institutions, doing explicit research on the ways in which science is not isolated from the world and the ways in which political and social forces shape what happens in science. i've spent a lot of my career working on that. so it's kind offed, i mean, i -- odd, i mean, i have lots of things i do wrong and make mistakes, and the fundamental thing here is this shouldn't be personal. but clive has taken the time to say all these things that are kind of the opposite of what i actually think. and i think you have to ask yourself why. the answer is simple, it's easier to attack dogs when they're strong. there are very good reasons that we shouldn't geoengineer, but painting a straw dog, making people say things that they don't say that you can easily see they don't say in my book and other writings i've written, i think, is a kind of weak way to do it. and i think because it's actually very hard toen beige the really serious -- to engage the really serious choices that these technologies bring up. i think there are, in fact,