ababa ethiopia that's why the world will call gets to morrow for that matter simply international federation of journalists is imprinted 181914 and this will be for dennis what killed what was the state of media and that's what we interrogate him to do in the program that's what we've called our guest here to how bad it's gotten and how dennis navigate in and in a position in a situation where they feel that those in authority or pic in how they transact that's a difficult question to answer especially in this country because we're perceived to be the free media in the region but i really think we need to have a more substantive and more long running discussion about what's happening in the counties ok because that's where the people are really at the coalface they're you know and they're facing very powerful individuals with impunity and very often threaten the lives of journalists would you recommend more journalists explore independent journalism the path you took a couple of years back for sure journalists are consistently having to deal with what is a government not to do that supposedly the oficial n

journalists. what do you make of it? >> yeah. it's -- it's a bit of a tragedy, andrea. u.s. international broadcasting is vast. it has a 750 million dollar budget, not trivial, even in the federal government it grew out of the cold war where we were trying to reach people around the world, and talk about freedom with independent press, and that's basically what it has been. there's about 3,500 employees. they devoutly believe in their mission to bring objective, fair-minded news to people around the world. the appointment of michael pack and approval of michael pack is, he's kind of a propagandist. everybody who's been head of doa and the broadcaster board of governors, super global media have been fair-minded and not politically minded. to have somebody who wants to possibly create trump tv on an international stage is a really dreadful idea. >> and this comes at a time when u.s. -- the whole profile of the united states has been so severely damped. look at the bolton book. whatever you think of john bolton, just the description of the way we are viewed, the way alliances have been damaged, and these independent journalists, i've seen them for years, traveled with them oversea