well, joining me in the studio right now is irene van der zande. i hope i said that right.he is the founder and executive director of kid power, teenpower, fullpower international. that's a mouthful. she is the author of multiple books including two very important resources "bullying what adult need to know and to keep kids safe," and "face bullying with confidence." your organization has been around for a long time. how did you start this? >> the inspiration for starting kid power happened when i took more than 25 years ago, when i took a group of young children, including my own two on a field trip. and ended up protecting them from a man who was threatening to kidnap them. >> my goodness. >> so now you've pretty much become an expert between your own life and all this. how do we know the difference between bullying versus normal children and their conflict? >> well, experimenting with negative youth as a power is normal. when it becomes bullying is when it's becoming damaging, when there's -- you know, if it's back and forth and kids are working things out with adult sup