designated conducting business with the irgc. they are due to receive relief under various phases. but the business empire as you described it remains intact. undersec. sherman: and the irgc does not support this deal. that should tell you something. senator: thank you, mr. chairman. chairman: thank you. senator. senator: my understanding is that the irgc controls smuggling benefits very handsomely. that is one of the reasons they are opposed to that. is that a correct impression? sec. szubin: the irgc is engaged in a lot of nefarious activity within iran's economy. we have heard and credible -- seen credible allegations of profiteering and black markets, including goods going to the help of the iranian people. ms. sherman, i want to turn to you. i submitted a series of questions to this administration. in response to one, the administration responded that iran has committed indefinitely to not engage in specific activities that could intervene to the design and develop a nuclear weapon. in this context, does "indefinitely" meani

bridges -- from the irgc, building bridges. it is like asking a blue-collar worker who just won the lottery, will you buy a house or a car? i will do both. that would be my advice. restore deterrence using all the tools and the policy box, and don't be afraid of the deal the iranian make. they still need the agreement more than we ever did. i guess i would revert to previous advice and say don't you remember, don't do stupid you are soome point far down in a rathole, you don't know how to get out. when you are in a whole, stop digging. emmanuel's point is good, separate from the negotiations is an sure you have sufficient resources devoted to the security requirements to suitably defend yourself and your allies. theave been undermining defense department even before sequestration with massive defense cuts. right now there is a serious -- u.s.about ua capabilities as well as the default. when someone says all of the options are on the table, i don't think people really believe that. the asian side we have been hearing from allie

it's a revenue source for the irgc. it's not coming off. not at five years, eight years, 15 years under this deal. any international bank that hosts accounts will face cutoff from the u.s. financial system. those are very tough aggressive sanctions and they remain in place. now there are companies who have done what i would call arms length transactions with the irgc over time that we've designated for conducting business for the irgc. we have companies like that due to receive relief. but the business empire remains intact. >> the irgc does not support this deal. that should tell you something. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. senator markley. >> the irgc controls a lot of smuggling and benefits very handsomely from the sanctions in that regard. and that's one of the reasons they are opposed to this. is that a correct impression? >> the irgc is engaged in a lot of nefarious activity within iran's economy as well and we've seen allegations, i think credible allegations that's they've engaged in profiteering off sanctioned goods, in

that we've designated for conducting business for the irgc. we have companies lukey sies like that due to receive relief. but the business empire remains intact. >> the irgc does not support this deal. that should tell you something. >> thank you, mr. chairman. >> thank you. senator markley. >> the irgc controls a lot of smuggling and benefits very handsomely from the sanctions in that regard. and that's one of the reasons they are opposed to this. is that a correct impression? >> the irgc is engaged in a lot of the farious activity within iran's economy as well and we've seen allegations, i think credible allegations that's they've engaged in profiteering off sanctioned goods including cynically off of goods going to the health of the iranian people. >> i want to -- i want to turn to you and i submitted a series of questions to the administration. and response to one of the questions, the administration has responded iran has committed indefinitely to not engage in specific activities that could contribute to the design of a nuclear weapon. i

every former irgc command or every former irgc general soa member of the club. each one of them has its hands in every sector of the iranian economy. those other things are looking at. we believe supporters and opponents of this deal can look at individuals we're going to present and say we can't do this. this doesn't go right. mr. president, i can vote for this deal with these five people had to come off. we know if the five people come off the deal is killed. we talk about this is a way to moderate iran and hopefully if they do these things or we do these things they will moderate. and the people will look for peaceful regime change. that's a facilitate at all when you actually the list the men responsible for putting to a 2009 green revolution. the deceased commander some of found his way on this nuclear deal. is nothing to do with the nuclear component. justin, and they are and sayyid are in prison in iran because they were not part of the nuclear deal. they could not negotiate to get them up because they were not part of the nuclear deal. qassem suleimani,

the irgc budget is set to double if not triple.hat would isis be able to do if this budget doubled tripled? there is not a supporter of the deal that would not say they would be able to do more. we know irgc will be able to do more if their budget is doubled or tripled, if they are able to buy advanced weapons. a shoulder fired rocket is able to shoot down aircraft. that is something they are not allowed to buy now. but russia's already facilitating that. there are things they will be able to get now. they're getting things now they should not be able to get for five years. one year to make a weapon if they cheat, and 15 years away if they don't. in the meantime, they become one of the strong as military powers in the middle east and inability to continue its hegemonic goals in the region. mr. smith: mike, thanks very much. that is terrific. , ifou do look at the gcpoa you look at different people who have been taken off or will have sanctions lifted, it is astonishing. the iranians essentially petitioned for everyone, a was a depu

and giving aid and support to the irgc. so, even though three of these five airlines also had some activity linked to nonproliferation, all five were supporting the syria war effort and the irgc. by the administration -- one would aseem that all five remain under sanctions. actually, three of them, the three sanctions under 13382, are being removed. so one thing that congress can do is raise this question and ask, why entities and companies that have been supporting and are presumed to be continuing to support the irgc in the supply of weapons to terror organization, to the syrian regime, violations of human rights, human war crimes and so on, are going to be getting sanctions relief on implementation day. you can go through these things and find a lot of such examples, and i think that would be a very useful way to keep the administration's feet to the fire until in 2017 we know whether the next administration will feel as committed or less committed to this deal. >> anything to add to that? okay. all right, we'll get this

conducting business with the irgc. they are due to receive relief under various phases. but the business empire as you described it remains intact. undersec. sherman: and the irgc does not support this deal. that should tell you something. >> my understanding is that the irgc controls smuggling benefits very handsomely. that is one of the reasons they are opposed to that. is that a correct impression? sec. szubin: the irgc is engaged in a lot of nefarious activity within iran's activity. -- within iran's economy. we have heard and credible allegations of profiteering and black markets, including goods going to the help of the iranian people. >> i submitted a series of questions to this administration. iran has committed indefinitely to not engage in specific activities that could intervene to the design and develop a nuclear weapon. in this context, does "indefinitely" meaning that the time period has not been established, or does it mean indefinitely? undersec. sherman: it means i run is prohibited -- iran is prohibit

revive the iranian economy given the population's frustration with sanctions and some will go to the irgc and you're right about that. i do think that if there is congressional disapproval and we cannot fulfill the agreement and it becomes a threshold state, there are more -- they are a more powerful force. if we can freeze them and we can them, just thinking strategically, we have to combat this force and set up a containment regime. but if they are weakened by the nuclear agreement, we will have better success in doing that. strategically, we have to combat this force and set up a >> thank all of you for your patience. the committee is adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] 2015] >> on c-span this morning, "washington journal" is next. at 10:00 our "newsmakers" interview. later, president obama talking about the iran nuclear agreement in a speech at american university. q&a," then c-span's " former emergency manager of detr

the irgc and quds voice gets $6.4 billion in the budget. president boeheim a participating in the budget represents 65% of the total defense budget 10% of the budgets of the iranians will spend 10% of their total public budgets supporting the revolutionary guard of the quds force primarily responsible. it gives them a sense of where it is highlighting its own priorities. >> if i could follow-up. >> senator i want to add to that effect but for a moment. it does strike me as odd that we've assumed as a country the cost of the deal is simply that the money will flow back to iran in an unfettered uncontrolled way and we are doing nothing in the immediate term to do with the real risk of terrorist financing will flow in the international system through the revolutionary guard corps, i'm ois, quds force. we've accepted as a principal shrugging our shoulders the cost of the deal when i don't get should be and it's a remarkable bit minutes duration has described the walkaway plan here is if we will be the isolated party internationally when in fact

what they are saying it's not about the irgc.it's how many corporations come and go back to their capitals and speak at a bus. that's the thinking. whether it works out as a whole different matter what obstacles in the way. khomeini came with economic reform and so far has said nothing about for great headlines from tehran. $185 billion of investment in the next five years and iranian oil and gas. the investment brings you to global economic mainstream and away we have to deal with people and whole mini has not opposed these projects or ideas so far. but i think you need to watch out for if i was an american analysts and i was sitting there watching this, i want to know how hard people in the administration going to the global economy and deal with the western world has stated clearly what he calls resistance economy which is to say we will not become dumping grounds for westerner chinese imports. we have to learned the lessons from the last 10 years. rouhani is very cautious in what he says. forgetting about everything and susta

he is an iranian special forces commander, the head we should say of the irgc. the one who violated sanks met with russian leaders including vladmir putin. soleimani is tied to many acts of violence bense the united states. >> he is absolutely responsible for killing many americans. i would say the last two years i was there the majority of our casualties came from his surrogates, not sunni or al qaeda. jenna: the news surfaces as two prominent democrats on capitol hill announce they won't support the iran nuclear agreement. let's talk more about this with a senior fellow with the defense for democracies, an irrather than who written and investigated soleimani on quds force, the irgc and specifically this individual suleman nip. why is he so dangerous, ali? >> he is the head of the extra territorial branch of the revolutionary guard. in other words every single terrorist operation of the guards takes place under his orders and supervision. so it's an act of great symbolism that he now is meeting the president of russia, a head of state, inspite of the fact that

and the questions about the irgc and sewell money, and he is not de-listed. there are a few entities whose identity has changed over time. privately we're happy to go through the individual cases but we have kept in place our sanctions regime on terrorism. >> thank you mr. secretary. now we have three questioned asked by the gentleman from new jersey, if we could just have a succinct answer to those. >> on the -- congressman the greatest incentive for an arms race in the region egypt or saudi arabia or one of the other countries to try to get a bomb would be if this agreement is rejected. and the reason will be is iran will go back to enriching and we'll not have inspection and not have insight and they'll say, oh, my god, now they're going for a bomb, now we have a reason to have to get one. they have in fact told us, these countries, that they are not going to chase a bomb providing the implementation of this agreement continues and providing that we are working with them on the other pushback issues for the region. with respect to the issue of par chin, ye

and the many 800 affiliated subsidiaries that are a part of the irgc world. suddenly those 11,000 contracts they got from the period might not be on the table. so they are fearful not just in terms of ideology but if they are going to get hit in their pockets. and if he can play that game and say look we are going to bring the terms in but that doesn't mean that you're going to lose out. that is the message that we are hearing from the likes. so when we talk about the region specifically saudi arabia because whether we like it or not it is the giants that iran has to deal with first and foremost and the only country that is mentioned by name two years ago. now the nuclear deal is in the bag. does he think politically that he is able to take this issue up? it is a very contentious issue, saudi arabia. but perhaps he's got what it takes to go forward. there is no doubt about it. >> i may ask you a bit about the dynamics. just about a year ago the content was isolated. there was a lot of internal politics. they are cooperating very much and a number of the state

is happy to work with the hardliners -- we had some indication that a nuclear deal, since it is the irgc that controls the nuclear file, that will lock in the hardliners. there was a story in foreign policy a couple months ago after the officials went to meet with the president at camp david and john hannah did a piece for foreign policy where the officials were describing the president seems to admire certain things like president salah money. -- like president sulamani. one of the things i wanted to ask you is who is -- we know who he is, but what is in his head, first of all, and is he winning in the region? if you can answer that -- the state apparatus, their institutions are effective and they are very good. and they have got a tremendous amount of intellectual capital that is brilliant and sophisticated, not just for the nuclear program but the other areas of the economy. they are an industrious people, and they have very good culture, literature, art, movies, film. this is a rich, textured, complex, sophisticated society. all of those things make it culturally more dangerous, beca

the irgc did not benefit from sanctions relief.e irgc is supposedly not going to benefit from the lifting of sanctions under the deal. none of their entities has been designated since november 23rd teen, which means hundreds of companies controlled or owned by the iranian revolutionary guard never made it to the list. companies in europe and asia who are now going to find interlocutors and business partners in tehran to conduct legitimate business and all things economic double not promote terrorism to build bridges and hospitals, who are they going to work with in europe? my take is they will work with a lot of higher gc companies that haven't been designated. half treasury and the state department administration as a whole decided to negotiate but at the same time continue to enforce sanctions that remained in the law books. not just iranians by the way and the business community outside the united states. one more example. the italian at the end of it as everybody else in europe sent a very high-profile delegation to tehran. but

most need to be able to highlight the fact that iran is a tremendously risky jurisdiction, where the irgc controls much of the economy, human rights abuses are on the rise, and support for militancy and terrorism continues unabated we're denied under the iran deal to discourage business with iran. betts we can do is delineate the illicit conduct, remind there are some secondary u.s. sanctions and maybe some reputational risks. the former secondary sanctions depends on u.s. follow-through while the latter reputational risks depends on how the rest of the international community perceive risks in the wake of an iran deal that actively encourages business with iran. how effective will it be to highlight the role of the ircg after it's been removed from the sanctions list? major international banks will be slow to move back into the iranian market but nonu.s. companies are likely to trip over one another in a rush to re-enter the potential market which is described in europe as eldoor rad dough and potential bonanza. under iran deal we lose the balance of unilateralal and multilateral sanctio

they're not enlisting the irgc for terrorist activities. if they do, at the end of phase two, the list for nuclear, the terrorist sanctions still stays in place. so i think people looking at the document ought to understand what is actually going to be in place after it's in effect. and i think the cooperation with the europeans requires we not distort what they're doing. they're not taking the rgc off the terrorist list. >> >> thank you, gentlemen. i have received numerous questions from people in texas and i will submit those for the record. they're pretty simple questions, but i will submit those for you to answer. the secretary kerry, this question is for you. following up on chairman mccaul's comments about the secret deal, secretary rice said that she has seen this deal with the iaea and that it will be shared with congress. so if she's seen it have you seen it? >> i don't believe that susan rice, national security adviser, has seen it. i think -- >> she said she did six days ago. she said six days ago she had seen it and reviewed it

iran, particularly with iran's reason position pon bashar al-assad with iran rolling in iraq or with irgc rolling the region in generate. it's been a fraught relationship at times between iran and britain. some of the gaps in foreign policy, perhaps the cause of existing mistrust between the two countries as you point out. why has this long-standing antagonism over decades going back many years, why has that been so difficult to resolve? >> you mean between iran and u.k. i think it comes more to the - iran's revolutionary principaled, which -- -- principals, which every country follows its own national interest. the goren policy is -- foreign policy is unique. now iran is putting ahead its national interest, but it's still pursuing the revolutionary values, like anti-american. >>, or opposing american imperialism or opposing israel, or supporting some groups that in the region that the briefing may not agree with. i think it goes - if you want to look at the root of the problem, it's the revolutionary value, that the iran supreme leader is holding, and he does not want really to give up t

they're not enlisting the irgc for terrorist activities. if they do, at the end of phase two, the list for nuclear, the terrorist sanctions still stays in place. so i think people looking at the document ought to understand what is actually going to be in place after it's in effect. and i think the cooperation with the europeans requires we not distort what they're doing. they're not taking the rgc off the terrorist list. >> >> thank you, gentlemen. i have received numerous questions from people in texas and i will submit those for the record. they're pretty simple questions, but i will submit those for you to answer. the secretary kerry, this question is for you. following up on chairman mccaul's comments about the secret deal, secretary rice said that she has seen this deal with the iaea and that it will be shared with congress. so if she's seen it have you seen it? >> i don't believe that susan rice, national security adviser, has seen it. i think -- >> she said she did six days ago. she said six days ago she had seen it and reviewed it

let me call to everybody's attention here, the irgc opposes this agreement. so they are not sitting there thinking they are going to get the whole world and do what they want to do. and one of the reasons they impose this agreement and i invite you to talk to the intel community about that, they will document that, is they see themselves losing the cover of the nuclear umbrella they hope to have for their nefarious activity. there is nothing here to prevent them from pushing back against the irgc and others going forward. congress and others are all free to work together to build the pushback against the destabilizing activities. but let me ask you a simple question. has iran empowered more destabilizing with a nuclear weapon or stripped of that with an internet agreement they have to live up to and us coming up underneath with a whole new set of agreements and pushback. i think the answer to that is crystal clear. you ask the question of what happens with respect to year 15? folks, under the additional protocol and the modified 3.1 code, please focus on what

the united states will still be able to pressure banks and companies into not doing business at irgc and iran's military forces as well as those who facilitate their business. even if the eu and u.n. remove some of these from their list these bad actors in iran generally will find business stymied until they correct tear own behavior in the eyes of the united states. this is both due to the direct risks of sanctions and the improvement in international banking practices since 9/11. a bipartisan effort begun and you george bush and juan and continued under president obama. the united states will maintain their ability to ain't tan sanctions even after u.n. restrictions laps. the united states can also trigger snap back of existing smkt. even one jcpoa participant can trigger unsc review and a vote on a unsc resolution to continue with relief. the u.s. veto power gives us the ultimate free hand to reimpose these smkt. snap back can be less drak mean to deal with lesser violations as secretary lewis testified. this could come with political costs. many skeptic point to these costs as li

but many, if not most, of these enterprises are linked to the irgc. and to people who have been involved in the nuclear program. so a question i have is, did you examine within framework of the iranian economy be what the effect is on removing these sanctions in terms of strengthening or weakening various players? .. -- various does the agreement strengthen the irtc-linked companies and if

we have some indication lots of ways the nuclear deal if it isn't the irgc that controls the nuclear file in many ways that will lock in the hard-liners. and there was a store in foreign policy a couple months ago after the arab officials were invited to meet with the president at camp david, john hannah did a piece for foreign policy where there were arab officials who are described a as the president seems to admire certain things about qassem suleimani, certain things about the quds force. you think arabs are pretty confident you guys could use something with. one of the things i want to ask you is who is, i think i'm we know who qassem suleimani is not what's in his head, first of all? and is he winning in the region lacks if you get asked to enter that ended mike i will ask you. >> one is, the iranian state, state apparatus, there state institutions are effective and are very good. and they've got a tremendous amount of intellectual capital that is brilliant and sophisticated not just for the nuclear program but in other areas of the economy. they are and industrious people and

period smart, remember the potential big losers are the affiliated subsidiaries that are part of the irgc world. the 11,000 contracts may no longer be on the table for them and they are fearful, not just in terms of ideology. they are fearful of getting hit in the pockets. if you play the game and say, look, we bring in the foreign firms and it does not mean you are missing out, that is the message you are hearing. i do not know if they are going to play it. if we talk about the region, whether we like it or not, that is the giant that iran has to deal with first. now, the nuclear deal is in the bag. can you, as you think politically, pick the issue up. -- issue up? he feels he has what it takes to go forward. there is a lot at stake. >> let me ask about the dynamics within. tar was isolated and there was a lot of internal politics. theyve new leadership and are cooperating very much. states have ae lot of economic interests now and to what degree to you see the gcc being cohesive in this coming time? does it make a difference. how does -- a difference? how does it play? ford: i see them

what they are saying it is not about the irgc but how many corporations will come and invest money andck to the capital's and. >> good of us. that's a thinking. whether that's going to work out as a whole different matter and there are many obstacles in the way. is it okay with economic report and soap are obviously has said nothing about these great headlines we are hearing from tehran. to give you an example $185 billion worth of investment up to five years in iranian oil and gas. that kind of investment in ways we have to deal with people that yesterday yesterday were an amazing, and he has not opposed any of these projects or ideas so far. what i think you need to watch out for if i was an american and sitting there watching this i want to know how hard the people in the rohani administration are going to square this thing and going back to the global economy dealing with the western world. call me and he has stated as one of his key legacy issues what he calls for assistance economy which is to say we are not going to be dumping grounds for westerner chinese imports. we will learn

revive the iranian economy given the population's frustration with sanctions and some will go to the irgc and you're right about that. i do think that if there is congressional disapproval and we cannot fulfill the agreement and it becomes a threshold state there are more -- they are a more powerful force. if we can freeze them and we can them just thinking strategically, we have to combat this force and set up a containment regime. but if they are weakened by the nuclear agreement, we will have better success in doing that. >> thank all of you for your patience. the committee is adjourned. [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2014] >> coming up, middle east correspondents discuss the iran nuclear agreement. president obama argues for the iranian deal at a speech at american university in washington. officials testify about the lifting of iranian sanctions at a senate banking committee hearing. >> on the next washington journal, police chie

but many, if not most, of these enterprises are linked to the irgc. and to people who have been involved in the nuclear program. so a question i have is, did you examine within framework of the iranian economy be what the effect is on removing these sanctions in terms of strengthening or weakening various players? .. -- various does the agreement strengthen the irtc-linked companies and if this strengthens the weaker of these companies encourages economic reform in iraq? discourages it, or has no effect? devarajan: it is a big question and a very important one. we did not look at that. mainly for the reasons that you alluded to. it is very collocated and there is a lot of uncertainty even over how much money there is that is being blocked. i readn artiin "w rk timesouthe ra we really didn't, we completely ducked the issue. it's potentially very important but i think we also don't want to mix up stocks and flows that we're talking about the effect of the lifting of sanctions on the productive capacity of the economy. these are assets that are sitting t

hundreds of american soldiers were killed in iraq by shia militias that were trained in iran by the irgc. so your question is a good one. has the government changed? there's no evidence of change. mr. secretary has there been evidence of change? >> yes. in that the president of iran sent his foreign minister to negotiate an agreement to which i could pose you a lot of questions that i can give you an answer to that are yes, too. does iran have to give up two thirds of its centrifuges? yes. >> mr. secretary those are words -- >> if the gentleman -- if the gentleman will suspend your time has expired. >> yes. >> i have suggested to the members, ask the questions and leave time for response. we're going to brian higgens of new york. >> thank you mr. chairman. the snapback provisions in this agreement are real and powerful. and i think are born out of a deep distrust of iran. snapback provisions as i understand them, allows for any of the six powers to the deal to flag what it considers a violation. that concern would be submitted to dispute resolution panel. if those concerns remain unresol

we are not relieving sanctions against iran's revolutionary guard corps, the irgc, or the quds forceor any of their subsidiaries or senior officials. in fact, under this deal, more than 225 individuals and companies linked to iran will remain designated, including major iranian companies and their financial, engineering, and transportation sectors. there's been much discussion of the iranian foreign reserves that are to be released from foreign restricted accounts under the deal. if iran fulfills its nuclear commitments, iran will receive about $50 billion, not two or three times that much. the rest of what's been inaccessible will remain inaccessible. and with that about $50 billion iran will need to try to address an economic hole that is half a trillion dollars deep. this was president rouhani's central promise to the iranian people when he ran for office, and he now needs to meet that promise. on snapback, if iran does not uphold its end of the bargain, we can promptly snap back sanctions. for u.s. sanctions, this can be done rapidly in a matter of days. and we have the discretio

it's the irgc, qods force and their leadership. the iranian people, this would lead them to hope that there's some hope that it would place them into the international community. our posture changes. we are very muscular, we have a muscular posture in the region right now. for the most part, it will stay the same, but it will shift the activities a little bit. senator tillis: secretary carter, chairman dempsey, i'm trying to get my hands around the thought process that would make the saudis less likely to acquire a nuclear weapon, most likely from pakistan, a warhead. why would any of the leadership in saudi arabia -- you only need one to spark other nuclear proliferation -- if we are talking about a nation that has violated a number of treaties and agreements, the possibility that that could occur and nation -- and a nation having to prepare to have their own deterrent, where's the logic in this agreement preventing them from moving forward and having a -- having that ability themselves? secretary carter: the agreement doesn't lim