take a look at these three more then i want to talk more about irving penn. hool where drawing nude form was part of the language. when he was still learning the field in 1949, '50, tired of live models who all had the same body type, he brought into his studio figures where graverty played a role. this is a good example. where there was a fullness of the figure. artists like fullness. they like to draw -- >> rose: things that are round -- >> that are supple and round. >> rose: right. and penn was very aware of sort of the history of the nude and he taught himself a hot about lighting and form by just practicing in the studio. >> rose: next thing is picasso. i just want to show you these. >> one of the most famous portraits -- >> rose: is that a great photograph. >> picasso, this is photographed in the south of france at picasso's home, and penn liked mostly to work in his own studio, but this is one of the great pictures of all time. >> rose: wow, so great. and penn used the sort of dark cloak that picasso had to create this void that sort of shows the face a

charlie: tell me about irving penn. e greatest picture makers of the 20th century in any medium. for me, it was a pleasure to work on this show. i think we knew a lot about penn. his worker. 165 covers alone. there something about him that i didn't understand, which is that while he was making those great fashion portraits, while he was doing pictures and portraits of citizens, the small trades, he was also making great still lives. he made extraordinary prints. he was a great image maker, but a splendid object maker. that is the story that comes out of the show. charlie: still life in color, and all the portraiture? jeff: most in black and white, except for cover -- color images -- cover images. that's his own story. what did a picture look like in magazine, and how could he transform it later in his life into a next ordinary black and white print? we learn from seeing it on the walls of the museum. charlie: what is the challenge to put together this kind of exhibition? you can do it chronologically, that's easy. jeff: