as a group of rabbis, in support of the israel we all love. it was not an accident that that is the way it played out. >> it wouldn't have happened without akivah and the way he lead us and helped plan the the trip. >> you know we have believe it or not just a minute left but alan you have a very poignant story i think encapsulates on a personal level this trip. >> as we were leaving the west bank settlement one of our colleagues said if i make aliah this is where i want to live. i will understand if you don't want to come and visit me here. i said to him if this is where you are, this is where i will come. our friendship is far more important than any considerations. it is about our relationship and how much we have come to appreciate each other not political stances. >> what a wonderful way to end our conversation. i hope we have had a formative insight about the rabbinic trip to israel. thank you for being here with us on mosaic ,,,,,,,,,,,, >>> welcome everyone to bay sunday i am your host sydnie kohara. i am joined by an amazing set of gu

exactly exactly how i said it was the including israel and you know why israel is a country that only became independent in one nine hundred forty eight and was under british colonial rule and was in exile as a people until the mid nineteenth century managed to come up very well democratically i would even say a little bit too democratic with its pluralistic system and the proportional representation but how is it possible that israel in the middle east is the only country that really has maintained democratic model to the extent that many of our local arabs are learning much more about democracy from us than they are from their fellow arab states and why do they have to learn from anyone why can't they just do it on their own ramzi do you want to finish up before we go to the break i had. yes yes i think you know this really example is a very interesting example because it's constantly constantly prided self-will being the only democracy in the middle in the middle east but it's also tries to constantly suffocate any attempts at genuine democracy in the middle east as of this is some

israel believes that the global community must demand that any egyptian government preserve the peace treaty with israel joel if i can go to you first i mean is that an unusual demand i mean here's a country israel demanding that a sovereign country and hopefully an elected government out to get through all of this violence. keep to a peace treaty that that is genuine generally not popular in egypt right now. it is an unusual demand but it's very much in line with the kind of demands that israel routinely makes israel doesn't see itself as a country that has to live in the middle east with its neighbors on mutually acceptable terms on the other hand even though the peace treaty is unpopular in egypt i don't believe that any government that might be installed as a result of a genuine democratic transition would actually abrogate the treaty the treaty is unpopular in egypt not because of anything having to do with egypt's relations with israel but because when the outline of the treaty was negotiated at the camp david summit in one thousand nine hundred seventy eight there was supposed

i mean a is israel's model of democracy worth exporting or just should israel not comment and not get involved in the internal affairs of another country egypt is trying its best it would seem to get its house in order but then you have netanyahu come out in basic praising mubarak is a great partner and friend etc etc he's not seen in that light in his own country so why should the united states why should israel be so involved in and because the have you ever have seen democracy alliance who is dictatorship or democracy to support dictatorship have you seen people like that ok as i don't seem people. please jump in democracies jump in and go as the markets at least jumping ahead i i understand the concern i understand the deep concern of come out for democracy i realize that i understand that he is supporting the. upstart government of. india in in gaza i don't think mahmoud abbas is very. happy about that situation in fact it's probably broken up a future palestinian state into two small statelets one in gaza. we can call that calm a stun and the one in what i called you day and sce

israel is already there. we will get up an enormous amount. >> i did include great britain and russia in the peace that i wrote. -- piece that i wrote. it would be wise to invite them and hope they would participate, shaure. >> i met whether they would have 1.5 or 2.7. the issue is the principal. it is less important than whether there will be an agreement. it is the principal. when you talk to people who are involved in the negotiations, they more or less disagree. we will take it as light as we can. they will continue to say positively. we now they can understand it. they are waiting to get it up. this is the reason why they resign. it shows that they understood the point. we know what it says for the public. it is up to the people that are involved in negotiations. they know what the solution would be. >> thank you. >> i agree in part. i do however think in fairness the security requirements of the state of israel have been dramatically changed in the past several weeks. the events that are unfolding has c

states whose name will be israel or is israel, and an arab state named palestine. they will live securely beside one another in good neighborly relations and will fight against terror. this will enable the palestinian state to be demilitarized. this will enable a complete and to the conflict and will open a window or perhaps an update to regional activity. the sides of the territory will enable the establishment of a palestinian state and agreed upon sensible borders will give israel security. the end of the conflict will enable our regional and global economy. the palestinians will be able to benefit from a growing global economy, and israel will benefit from relations across the borders. peace will bring the momentum of tourism, the opening of joint modern ventures in the area -- energy, water, environment, free-trade. in fact, in every area of life. the younger generation will be able to buy an iphone in stead of stones. i am turning to our palestinian neighbors and saying to them, come, but as a compromise, let us reach a compromise that can serve as a model fo

more cooperative attitude on israel's part but there's not very much israel can do i think at all to influence you know the regime change in egypt not at all in fact i would be probably the worst thing israel could do ok well thank you very much for your comments dalia shamblin international political consultant david tel aviv. well we're giving you updates on what's happening in egypt as well as analysis in-depth analysis what's behind the uprising at what lies ahead for egypt these are explored in the latest edition of crosstalk that's coming up on our program next hour. the future of the mubarak regime is not so much being decided on the streets of egypt but mainly. they are certainly hald talks going on behind the scenes between egypt and indeed the americans and what is staggering is that we haven't heard from the obama administration a clear and unequivocal damone for mubarak to step down abilify could just interject right here i mean you can lay this at the doorstep of the u.s. but you know at the end of the day the only world leader who's been unequivocal about this is prime

american spokesperson here in israel israel's looking from the sides as i heard with another interview just before me i think that the policy is egypt has to decide the people of egypt have to take their own fate into their own hands and really this is a battle for democracy the question we're asking here in israel is at the end of the day when a new government presumably is going to be created will it still be willing to hold out its hands for peace with israel and i think that that's a major concern both here in jerusalem and in tel aviv we have a generation today of his rabies by the way who only remember peace with egypt we have a generation who don't even remember nine hundred seventy nine and that handshake between sadat and menachem begin so the issue is can we carry on despite the changes which are taking place which despite the democracy within the arab world can we carry on and guarantee the continued peace between the two countries on the two people and would you agree with. jeff that this international support for israel is parts of the problems that we're seeing in egypt a

but israel is already damaged. it -- it will give up an enormous amount for peace. >> i did include great britain and russia in the piece that i wrote. i think it would be wise to invite them and hope that they would participate. sure. question think those misunderstood. whether israel would have to compromise on 1.5 or two 0.7 -- >> i think i was misunderstood. whether israel would have to compromise on 1.5 or two 0.7, the issue is the principal. whether the armenian court will be part of israel or it will be part of palestine, that is less important than whether they will have an agreement between the two sides. so the principles -- when you talk to people who are involved in the negotiations for the last 20 years, they have always agreed. take the right of return. every palestinian will continue to -- we know in track to that knows really would accept it. they're not willing to give it up. this is the reason he had to resign. he showed there that he understood the point. we know what he says to the public. unfor

israel this was a social explosion and that's the way we should view it. but this process is slightly different in different countries take bahrain for instance twenty percent of the country's population is sunni eighty percent a shia the leadership all sunny shia muslims consider themselves oppressed now they want to be represented in a coalition government they're in talks now and they may find a modus vivendi rain water in other countries the phenomenon is purely social i'm sure islamic groups will take part in a box we have to differentiate between a minute that we shouldn't paint everybody with the same black stick to take the muslim brotherhood in egypt finster it is a movement that now wants to become the political party they already have twenty percent of seats in the development they're proposing a social program with the movement is actually a combination of different over forces there was a very interesting story in a local newspaper about the muslim brotherhood having a youth wing and a women's women but of these two groups just hatched themsel

minds of pro-israel u.s.citizens, these are the men and women who at the day's end our israel's most lethal enemies. the cost of the unqualified u.s. support for israel long has been measured only in dollars and political capital. and as such has been largely ignored by americans and ignored to washington's wasteful. but we are now in a situation where the cost of support for israel is or soon will be measured in the lives of american parents children. that cost i think will quickly become obvious, abhorrent, and utterly unacceptable to those parents. fourth, finally, and i think most importantly, the u.s. government and its european allies must stop trying to spread democracy abroad by military, financial, humanitarian or political intervention. no young american man or woman should die for the insane goal of giving the people of iraq and afghanistan a possibility of increasing democracy, a phrase used that in some item by u.s. presidents and other western leaders. no small republican government like our own

in israel, as the doctor has correctly pointed out, israel has seen its bedrock relationship with egypt being twisted upside-down. what is happening in sinai i terms of lack of rule of law i terribly it unsettling to the israelis. the israelis are cautiously hopeful, but rightfullyo wonder what will be in jordan three months from now and two years from now. prime minister netanyahu, who had already stressed the security of his nation in the context of any negotiation with the palestinians as doubled down and although he would not put it in these terms he is going to build a fortress israel. who could blame him and the israeli people for not having that desire? having more recently lived through the -- now witnessing turmoil thats definitely unsettling to israelis, who would engage in some bold initiatives that causes the israeli public to have to pay a significant price. -these circumstances i could not imagine the political commercial he would run to support such a position. in ramallah, president abbas still reeling from disastrous political consequences having seceded to president ob

it of a threat from israel. they fought several wars with israel. this was an opportunity to recover the suez canal, which is a big money earner. it gave them the oil fields. it gave them a tourist mecca. half of the tourist sites are owned by ex military people. so long as the military is involved, i do not see any effort to undo that treaty. that treaty is pretty substantial. it has survived incredible stresses. as the population reacted to israeli actions. that is not to say that israel cannot help the process. as a new government forms -- i am sure one will form. if there is a way that israel can open up the dialogue with the palestinians, that will help. it will give people in the region encouragement. it does not mean they have to give away the store, but it does mean they have to be reasonable in terms of listening to other positions and making compromises where compromises can be made. that is what happened at camp david. it was coming together to find common interests. there are plenty of common interes

we spent a month in egypt, a month in israel, more time in jordan and damascus and turkey, iran.you know, we went all the way across through afghanistan, and part of this was me trying to show my young wife where i had grown up, and i tell that story in the book, and i tell the story of how this was in 1975-76 we were in israel, the west bank, and we were freelancing as young journalists in our 20s and sharing a by line and sharing stories like with the science christian monitor, and at the time we interviewed an israeli official or an academic, and then go and talk to a palestinian mayor or novelist, and it seemed to us at the time that the conflict was solvable and that was right around the corner, and the two parties really were not that far apart. i take about that in the book as well. i explain, well, alas, we were wrong. it's gone on 40 years since that time. >> there's maybe a parallel trajectory in the book. at a number of points you write about, you write sympathetically about various visions of a binational state, and george was a factor of one, and you approvingly seem

hope i found in israel. seems to me almost the most important thing that could cross over through that panel and out through the israeli wall are palestinian children, gaza children, to talk to israeli children. what you have got to have in the end is a meeting of minds. i know it sounds we are at the bottom of a terrible place in israel and palestine, but hope has to start somewhere, and it will have to start with the children. is starting with the children. >> terribly depressing situation. >> it is depressing. the children are the victims of a war, but i do not think it is possible to understand what is happening here. without understanding, too, that the problem is, as, who use these children as human shields, who give the children explosives or sometimes force them to have an explosive belts and send them to blow up israeli civilians. they have a terrible responsibility for this dreadful situation, and that really has to be faced up to. >> as far as the siege that the israelis are imposing on this commu

them the westernized classes manage to keep a grip on the situation and maintain the treaty with israel then i think you will see slower and more incremental change what i think internally you'll see all over the region is a very messy process with different countries moving in different very different ways with very different outcomes many now see iran as are perhaps the next target of antigovernment on rast in the region what's your take on that. it's very difficult to say. iran has already had its attempted revolution which of course was suppressed essentially but it's not clear that the opposition forces will be able to get that going again the other absolutely critical factor that we don't know yet is that all these revolutions have been urban revolutions by the peoples of the capital cities we don't know yet what the attitudes of the mass of the population are in the countryside in the small towns that's why the future of egypt is so much i we don't know how these people will behave how they'll vote when when there are elections or when they start to mobilize after what has happen

people out to die john israel no this is not the jews you know this is you gentlemen we have to move on we're wasting too much time please susan i'd like to go to you on a good note here look at al qaeda people and therefore i think and therefore let me finish and their friends they must be so red faced right now but it must be so angry that the people could make political change their terrorism doesn't work but people's power can work not dictators supported by washington not bought. asked by washington but people people most people pulled off an amazing event. in the whole thesis of al qaida it's been shown to be absolutely five salute go ahead absolutely i completely agree and for all of the united states lofty proclamations that they that we are exporting democracy to the middle east in fact you know what we've exported has been has been devastation of entire societies and here we have a country with with five thousand years of recorded history of syrians and for sylar assume the worst people please stop interrupting please stop interrupting and and this is and this is this has c

issue of the new what do you mean it diverts attention from israel that israel too is now facing serious problems due to the riots for instance they've opened the rafa crossing in fact it was opened some time ago they just closed it during the crisis so now israel doesn't know what the new egyptian leadership will do whether they'll maintain the gaza blockade only sin eyesight along the egyptian border of you know i read an article in the wall street journal that said the military and intelligence communities in israel are in favor of preparing for re occupation of gold at the same time many experts say that would put israel in a position where a large scale bloody war would be inevitable. so we can't say the situation was instigated by israel or that its purpose was to divert attention from israel this was a social explosion and that's the way we should view it you more would that this process is slightly different in different countries take bahrain for instance trying to percent of the country's population a sunni eighty percent a shia the leadership all sunny shia muslims consider th

go ahead and filibustering last five minutes john wright the libel that's been directed against israel by the past two in the past five minutes really is reprehensible and it's a diversion the revolution in egypt is not about the so-called peace process it's not about israel it's not about the palestinians i don't think you gentlemen on this program or not one person on this program has said that it's not about them now i'm not wearing any of the reds we're having a laugh line is really meaningless to me an issue that's not an issue here of course is not it was real it's not very it's about the egyptian people for the. people the egyptian people don't want the blockade on gaza job this is a popular revolution this articular hurricane he was not as bad as terrorists or if you mention. the rally. and this is a diversion it's a diversion let's talk about the egyptian revolution that was then terrorism didn't attack the terrorist you can't blockade civilians it's not allowed to have starved children if you have a problem with terrorism is really is are not storming in these areas already e

nowhere is it commented on more sparingly than in neighboring israel. israeli policy toward this region, toured egypt, has been bound up for more than 30 years now with a peace treaty. israel has grown used to seeing mubarak as the living embodiment of that treaty, and its guarantor. if he goes, there is huge anxiety here about what will come next. everyone in israel knows the peace treaty is unpopular with the egyptian street. the future regime, under more democratic pressures, might want to amend or repudiated. it is for that reason that israel says as little as it can in public about what sort of outcome at once. it wants manage change, of course. it accepts that change is coming in egypt. it did have a stake in the way things work, the of decrepit nature of the old regime toward foreign policy. there is little israel can do to influence or create the outcome it once. the cannot comment on individual contenders for the future of the egyptian presidency. an endorsement from jerusalem would be the kiss of death. israel waits and watches in silence, lik

it goes way beyond israel. if there is any chance for a nuclear free zone in the middle east, at last i checked that was not in the immediate future. the time line for iran's nuclear program is moving far faster than any diplomacy. that is the danger. this hope that whether it is a regional diplomacy or more narrowed the policy is going to solve this problem for us is unlikely. the iranians are busy in their laboratories with their centrifuges. >> richard thinks it is not going to happen soon. i think it is not going to happen soon because the western powers do not want it to happen cent, not because israel does not have the security. it could be an incentive for israel and the arab countries to reach the kind of peace that we all seek if you have the zone with the sanctions. it is from that context, i think, that the zone should be an issue that takes precedence over other alternatives when it comes to the issue of nuclear threats in the area war between iran and israel and other arab countries. >> taking the

we also bring doctors from these developing countries for training here in israel and it's a vision that's paying off not only is saeed eternally grateful to the israeli doctors the. saved her daughter's life she's now brave enough to tell her neighbors back home to home what on i will tell everyone we were in israel and how they saved my daughter's life i'm no longer afraid to say because my daughter is alive and so while the politicians continue to have a go at each other and israel and the arab neighbors go further apart on the ground at least in this spot a very different story is unfolding very closely r.t. . and i'll be back with our top stories in less than fifteen minutes and next it's time for our culture show moscow out this week martin enters discovers how to make life more affordable in the russian capital known to be one of the most expensive cities in the world. hello and welcome to the program now moscow is famous for being one of the mess expensive cities in the world so on this week's moscow show and we'll see just how low we can find prices in the us and capital th

live with such a thing absolutely without a question of a doubt is iraq obsessed with israel right now you never hear about it because they're obsessed with themselves which is what they should be ok you know if i could have irony if i could ask both of you heart of a case supported by western governments anyway minute and i to ask you how the minute you think that still when we watch so i give you a chance harold please don't shove in our other guests it's unfair it still isn't being fair skews your not being seizure you're not being fair and when you go to our other guests i noticed and things you learned illiterate johanne and the thing country every so many people in the world were very very happy to see the uprising against these tyrants in the middle east should the palestinians now have the right to show the same kind of free expression. again. they're broke and. can not leave then the expansionist. we'd ever expanding settlements importing russians to do it where they could easily accommodate people in northern israel they can live with their way and ties cooperated with. being

is to tighten noose around israel's neck. if they are seeing a great opportunity in egypt, a strong supporter of the peace with israel. if egypt falls, jordan and hezbollah and lebanon in the north and a real noose on israel. chris mitchell was in cairo and they know they are at a cross roads. >> they are saying tht a tipping point in egypt's spiritual and natural history. it is important people are praying and fasting for 2 nation of egypt not back to islam but it turns more to freedom, more democracy, so the gospel, these prayer movements, these people coming to faith in jesus can change egypt, but the middle east and eventually the world. >> john waage cbn news. >> joining us now is joel rosenberg, the founder of the joshua fund, ministry to help christians, jews and muslims in the middle east. joel, pleasure to have you on the broadcast. for those that are watching around the world, christians, why should we care about what is going on in egypt? >> obvious reasons, instability there, largest country, 80 million mostly mus

in the help to egypt are very different to egypt goes in or is a sort of a help to israel in disguise because they're helping the egyptian not for the sake of the egyptians but for the sake of the pieces. it is you see to me the peace treaty acceptable to the egyptians that this you pull them giving two billion dollars a year to egypt does not do very much to alleviate the suffering of the masses and the problem is that the money goes into the pockets of the elite anyway so i don't think it's you know it's the bill is the situation and if the we go there it's maybe because they want to but you see there the friendly regime that would presumably heed and of course if there were an unfriendly regime then they would do the same thing with a show of hands now mr believe that the peace treaty between egypt and israel and israel we know is tightening its border security amid the some arrest that we're seeing in egypt do you think those are fears are justified we know that the muslim brotherhood said that they will cancel the peace treaty if they do come into power of course but there's a di

mind including the nine hundred seventy nine treaty with israel. so it's hard to judge the situation right now and i can give a direct onset i think it will become clearer after time has passed in any case i think it might force the israeli leadership to give up their policy of maintaining the status quo in the middle east so far the israeli leadership has been leaning towards preserving the status quo and abandoning the idea of a peaceful settlement despite numerous un security council resolutions and president obama's cairo speech israel kept building new settlements in the west bank and east jerusalem sabotaging all attempts at negotiation i think recent events may cause them to reconsider their policy because global trends and not in favor of israel's anik sation policy would in fact they cannot really an exe the west bank or not. if they were to annex the west bank israel will cease to be a nation state it will become a state of two nations and they realize that that's why they want the status quo they want to preserve the current state of aff

supported by all the members saying these are illegal it could mean israel israel is brought up for crimes and that's not something the u.s. wants it's obviously something israel will do everything it can to avoid the settlements have been going on for a long time that it's been happening in the west bank in east jerusalem which were annexed by israel and after the nine hundred sixty seven war. at this point according to estimates there are between four hundred thousand and half a million jewish settlers in the west bank and east jerusalem and that's you know the israeli leaders have generally for the most part supported this and the current leader prime minister netanyahu has strongly stood behind the settlements his attitude is jerusalem is not a settlement it's our capital now do you think that if the obama administration does go ahead or you know the u.s. in general make the shift and support this resolution do you think that has anything to do with the protests that we're seeing a ripple across the middle east right now because if we do see a change in government not only in tunisia a

against israel. can. can not believe we didn't expansionist this that we'd ever expanding settlements importing the russians to do it where they could easily accommodate people in northern israel they can live with their way and of egypt has cooperated with the surveillance starving gaza that kind of leverage that all that has to change and they expect this middle east then thing you're call it north africa that's quite right that's very much in the neighborhood my good have much luck i expected to come to like it came to the us to madison wisconsin and suddenly you have a live voltage in madison wisconsin how far that goes i don't know but it is about inequality and one instrument that can settle some inequality namely collective bargaining it's a human right and it is enshrined in the human rights so you see this is a general tendency this is not restricted to north africa and to the middle east the increasing inequality under the economics is.

we also bring doctors from these developing countries for training here in israel and it's a vision that's paying off not only is so easy you turn to be grateful to the israeli doctors that saved her daughter's life she's now brave enough to tell her neighbors back home. what i will tell everyone we were in israel and how these saved my daughter's life i'm no longer afraid to say it because my daughter is alive and so while the politicians continue to have a go it's. each other and israel and her arab neighbors were further apart on the ground at least in this spot a very different story is unfolding policy r.t. . i'll be back with a summary of our main news stories in about eight minutes from now in the meantime the business news is next with dmitri stay with us live here in moscow. friday night half past eleven but we're still alive to bring you the latest business news from moscow the russian finance minister the inflow of foreign direct investment into russia dropped by a third last year to reach thirteen billion dollars earlier couldn't say so that the growth of investment is w