neil kinnock practising his speeches at home, and i'd see him on tv and then see him practising, and iusedee him practising, and i used to see him watching maggie thatcher on telly, talking about maggie thatcher's performance on telly, and neil kinnock really respected maggie thatcher and her style. but but obviously they were very different politically. but what i learned from watching neil kinnock and maggie. maggie, maggie thatcher is that the when you're on screen and when you're at a conference, it doesn't necessarily translate to you in your living room. and it's really interesting to see what lands with an audience. and so that's what that's what gave me my passion. >> time is up. that's our time is up. i love your book, by the way. let's have a look at that. yeah. goodbye, glossy rama, that's esther san hope. but coming up next, we've got versus it's wsfime it's time for right versus left . it's time for right versus left. with emma and lloyd this week we've seen some alarming figures. population explosion for the past 20 odd years. emma. every single political party when it comes t

it's i mean, iused was inspired. yeah. it's i mean, i used to identify as a cat. sure a lot of us did when we were small. we didn't have a pet. so i used to pretend to be a cat and my sisters would hug me. now that i say it, it sounds very creepy, but you know this. >> there wasn't much to do in ireland at the time. >> very little to do. you're right. yeah, we didn't even have tv. so i mean, right. yeah, we didn't even have tv. sothis,3an, right. yeah, we didn't even have tv. sothis, chris? what do you about this, chris? what do you think about this? >> i'm not sure what i think about this one bit easier. >> if you said you didn't like it. >> well, i'm not i genuinely am not sure i can understand why they might want to be inclusive, but shouldn't it be? shouldn't churches be inviting to everyone automatically? shouldn't it go without saying? >> very interesting. well, nick, i mean, this is just one flag inclusiveness. i like i like inclusiveness, but why this one flag? why not every single flag in the world, right? >> because it's exclusive. there was a. i forgot

it's i mean, iused was inspired. yeah. it's i mean, i used to identify as a cat.'m sure a around, which is now, hanging around, which is wokeness. >> it's interesting that you almost have two holy systems in play almost have two holy systems in play here. you have the church and you have the lgbtq+ ideology as well. and which one? actually, they both take faith. >> well, i yeah, i suppose they are both things that may not exist, but i think it's nice. why not have it the odd time? the church is inclusive and you know, if you don't agree with it, just say a prayer for patience and tolerance is the key. i mean, jesus, he hung around with people that were not acceptable in his time. tax collectors. i suppose you could call them sex workers, you know. >> so do you really believe or are you just sort of playing the woke role? >> no, i do, i wouldn't say if was. >> in the woke role. >> in the woke role. >> if i was, if i was going to a church and was there every week and altar all and was there on the altar all the time, i wouldn't like it. but why not for pride week or