ivan. why do they want an angry gorilla anyway? you're a silverback. you terrify humans. we did do facial capture. we had a camera on ben bishop, the guy that played ivan, throughout the virtual process. but we didn't use it. it was, as with motion capture and with any kind of capture like that there's a hell of a lot of data. depending on what it is it is a sometimes quicker and easier and more creative and more — you get better results by hand doing it. in terms of bringing that to screen, that performance to screen, how we do it is a hell of a lot of reference gathering. lots of dogs, lots of gorillas to kind of tap into what makes an animalan animal and knowing its nuances, knowing its quirks and its ear flicks and its little idiosyncrasies that they do. this was a movie that the animals had to be completely photorealistic. yet at the same time, are we pushing it far enough, is there enough pathos, or humour, or sadness in those expressions, should we push it a little bit more or have we pushed it too far? and we're sort of slipping into uncanny valley where you start to go, "oh, no, that's not a real animal, they don't do that, they wouldn't do that." so that's a very difficult balance. and that was something that we fought with on every shot. it was a discussion that went from the heads of the studio all the way down, you know, through the movie. so we captured scene by scene. so we captured what we called a master scene from beginning to end. the animators back at npc would then take the chess pieces that we captured for bob and ruby and stella and all the other animals and animate them, animate them the whole master scene, you know, from beginning to end, without any kind of camera. we hadn't shot any kind of camera at that stage. it was alljust as a scene would play out. and so by the end of that process we had every scene we were going to shoot virtually playing out as a master scene. that would then go on to our virtual stage. now we're into the virtual stage we could go into the scene. first of all we would do it in vr. so we would put the headsets on. you can go into the scene, look around for the master you can go into the scene, look around while the master scene is playing out. we could go into it with the dp and the director and say, right, here is the scene, how are we going to film this? once we looked at it in vr we went on to the virtual stage and there we actually had a film crew and we were able to now literally film these virtual clips. and we could change lenses, they could pull focus, you know, there's nothing there, but everything is up on big screens. the reason that we did that as well was, you know, it put the filming a bit back into the film—makers' hands. i think thea said to us, nick, at one point, when we showed her the first kind of render of a scene with ivane movie evolves and goes through its different processes . probably a lot of people looking at the movie may not realise is how much of the backgrounds weren't real, but were actually completely generated virtually. any time that you were basically looking at bob and ivan in the backstage area, with stella and ruby, that entire environment was virtual. it was completely computer—generated. so we put a huge amount of work into all of the different textures and how light behaved on them. we had tiled surfaces, concrete surfaces, we had metal bars, we had glass. if you went in there and just said, right, well, we'lljust go and shoot empty plates of this environment, you know, we think bob will be there and shoot a shot there, you end up with a million plates, it will take you a long time to shoot. so therefore we needed it to be, you know, a virtual construct so that we would have complete freedom of cameras and complete freedom of choices later on. i'lljust cross the road, then. why woul