ambassador to nato ivo daalder has published the "empty throne." america's abdication of global leadership. we'll delve into that with him as we start, though, with a potential consequence of the stance, the international mystery into the whereabouts of the saudi journalist jamal khashoggi from the consulate in istanbul. he went from adviser to the royal family to a critic of what he considered saudi arabia's heavy handed crackdowns at home and wars abroad. he sought residence in the united states when he continued to speak out. and he's a columnist for "the washington post." america's usual support of saudi arabia has been amped up under president trump. they say they're looking into the disappearance along with turkish authorities. turkey has also requested a search of its istanbul consulate after unnamed turkish officials say the outspoken critic was killed inside. let's unpack all of this with ivo daalder and see how it plays into the theme of his book "the empty throne." i've got it right here. welcome to the program. >> nice to be here. >> lo

ivo daalder, the president of the chicago council on global affairs.ow at cfr and a cnn global affairs analyst. ann marie, are we in a new cold war with china? >> no, it's more helpful to talk about complex competition than cold war. the cold war was between two superpowers who were deeply separated, we had no cultural or economic ties with the soviet union. it was military. we are intertwined with china in every way, from the number of bonds they hold to our businesses and universities so it's a complex competition. but it's certainly heating up and china is unfairly taking advantage of us as you have written. we have to get tougher with china. this notion that we would integrate them into the post-1945 liberal order and then they would be -- play by the rules isn't true but rather than talking about a new cold war we need to think in a much more varied way about pushing hard on theft of intellectual property and actually working with them in areas we need to work with them and competing on their soft diplomacy not just the military side, they have th

ivo daalder and you are the head of the kocouncil that conducted the survey and what did you find?ny ways donald trump is making internationalism great again, butt is like oxygen, and you don't know it is there until it is gone. and people are starting to understand that the kinds of ways that the united states has been engaging now for seven years as a global leader as democracy, security, economics, and they may not have liked the specifics and at times disliked the specifics, but when it isp gone, you all tof sof the sudde notice what a problem it is. it is true for americans, and the highest want america to play a role, and interestingly pew ls saying if the alternative is chaos, then the give me the united states, because they believe in rulesed a adhere to the rules and extend to the rules and when the u.s. does not do that, you unts how important rules are. we talk about a rules-based order in europe and around the world and we never used to talk about it, because we took it for granted and we can't take it for granted anymore. >> and how does this work, again, with the comp

for more on the international fallout from this incident, we are joined in washington by ivo daalder,ica's abdication of global leadership. let mejust let me just start with the news that is just breaking out of the white house. the national security adviser john bolton has said in the last few minutes that the us wants to know everything that happened in saudi arabia, do you think the white house will get to the bottom of this? and if they do, what are they going to do about it? ido do about it? i do not think they are going to get to the bottom of this if they are going to rely on the turkish government and the saudi government to do the investigation because both sides have other motives beyond finding out what really happened. i think it is high time for the united states to go to the un and demand an international investigation and saudi and turkish cooperation with that investigation in order to find out what is going on. the turks are playing games by dripping out new evidence as they want and the saudis have changed their story so many times it is hard to believe what really h