i want to go to crescent founding partner jack ablin. ck, i want to start with the same question, about this mountain of debt, higher borrowing costs, can in go on inevitably? can in inevitably mount? will we sit here 10 years from now, 300 trillion this, 100 trillion that? could we conceivably be doing that? >> it is remarkable. i think we had, we could have had this conversation as you pointed out 15 years ago. it was certainly a hand-wringing concern then. now, with interest rates rising as you pointed out, we've got roughly 2.6 trillion of treasury debt coming due next year. currently carrying a coupon about two. you have to refinance that somewhere in the fours, that is another hundred billion dollars of incree mental interest expense. our interest payments as part of our overall discretionary budget is now approaching that of defense and medicare. that will likely surpass both of those numbers over the next two years. charles: so is that how a society a nation starts to stagnate? okay, we sort of become like the average american whe