it's kind of meals and gifts and travel but jack abramoff is offering.here was no enforcement of the world, so in my view the question is never as much about the definition of really aggressive enforcement because i think of enforcement is a determined but most politicians really don't want to go to jail and number two, they don't want to see their political careers entirely be revealed by front-page stories about their ethics problems and if they are aware that ethics are enforced they are likely to engage in misconduct in the first place. >> jack? >> on the last 1i fully agree. i think one of the good things about this area of the law is the people who commit these offenses are in trouble. the show the department of justice brings cases like this other actors will not commit acts they otherwise would have done. so if you can come up with a laws that are giving people notice but are broad enough to address the conduct for the criminal case is we bring going back to the hypothetical so briefly, i kind of debate because i think that there's a difference b

in 2006 we saw jack abramoff and 20 others charged and convicted with bribing public officials with mealsifts related to lobbying they were doing on behalf of american tribes and casinos. the individuals convicted included two white house officials and representative bob nay. or in january of this year former house speaker tom delay who was convicted of illegal, funneling illegal corporate contributions to state legislative candidates. or october of 2010 in alabama where 11 people were charged for political corruption related to the state legislature including four sitting alabama state legislators. or the city of bell, california, where there are eight people who have been charged, former and present city officials charged with stealing over $5 million, and the people who are charged include the mayor, the city manager and various members of the city council. and, of course, no conversation nationally about political corruption is complete without talking about illinois. former governors george ryan and rod blagojevich or louisiana, former governor eddie edwards who just got out of priso