scanlon was the business partner of jack abramoff. c-span: he had worked for tom delay. >> guest: abramoff was close to delay that emily miller didn't start all this. i was a misnomer in the media. tom rogers started all of this and i praise him for starting all of this. if i had anger in me i would say that guy did this to me. he didn't. he simply stood on -- stood up on behalf of native americans and found out something that didn't look or smell right. when you get to a certain level and to use members of congress to verify that this is a great lobbyist. you want to keep hiring him and the native americans unfortunately aren't getting a return that is not a helpful situation. tom rogers told the truth when he found out and i give tom rogers credit. he's the man who got the ball rolling. c-span: fox com, what's that story? >> guest: fox, was an interesting aspect. the federal government wanted to -- at the end of the day foxconn was the weird contract that the providers decided. members of congress their time is extremely valuable and

anything jack abramoff -- i.e. drank booze with james -- jake tapper mocks anything jack abramoff and i did is codified in united states law. if i'm a lobbyist and brian you are a congressman today, i give true examples in the book that it happened. i put these examples in the book sometimes with names omitted for a reason. if i want to i can take you to alaska and we can hunt. we could have a three or 4000-dollar dinner better food than jack abramoff had. i can raise to $75,000 in and take you a staffer in some of your family flight he was a congressman to

i spoke to jack abramoff and said a lot of people want to make you the one rotten apple. i bet you want to talk about how rotten is the barely? but the justis wouldn't let me talk to him. in the cause of enron, a interest interesting indicates. there is something i think that is fundamentally american which is there is in this counsel, i think, an ethic of win at all costs. if you win, nothing else matters, the bloottom line. i think that's what became interesting about the lance arm strongly story. that was what made him great and made him terrible in moral terms because he would do anything to win. >> he fooled you. your initial movie about armstrong was supposed to be the road back about his comeback. it ended up being the armstrongly. you say you had been lied to a lot of times but never as well as by armstrong? >> he is one of the best. i had to make myself a character in the film and be honest and say part of the angstrom story is that he created a lie that was so beautiful that we all wanted to believe it, you know, the cancer survivor who gets back from a near dea

enron, crazy corruption and what goes on some rogue american corporations and casino jack about jack abramoff the former lobbiest who wound you have going to jail and in "catching hell" looks at steve bartman, the guy who went for the foul ball at the cubs game and people unfairly blamed for somehow continuing the cruising. and buckner so that it that's correct many more years before the boston red sox ended their drought of winning world series. >> that's particularly an american issue? >> i don't know. i think some are. some are universal issues. you know, it was fun about "catching hell," we talked about the scapegoat in that and trace truck driver back to biblical times when, you know, people used to drive literally out of to that was supposed to be i am community. but i became interested in scapegoating precisely because of "taxi to the dark side." you know, the excuse about ab abu ghraib was it was just a few bad apples deflecting that dick cheney had basically set in motion a policy of torture throughout the system. so, i became very interested in that idea of scapegoating because it's

in 2007, it was ohio republican congressman bob ney, first elected official convicted in the jack abramoffedule, luxury vacations and fancy meals and sky box seats. bob ney sentenced to 30 minutes in prison. he actually got more than the prosecutors had asked for. the judge in the bob ney case told him at the sentencing, "as a member of congress, you have the responsibility above all else to set an example and uphold the law." then the judge sentenced him to more than the prosecutors asked for. is what the prosecutors asked for plus an extra three months. rear. then two years later, it was democratic congressman william jefferson of louisiana, he was 2009's poster boy. he was the guy with the cold hard cash. bundles of large denomination bills wrapped up in aluminum foil and stuffed into his freezer. sentenced in 2009 to 13 years in prison. one of the longer sentences in this cast of characters. but then two years later, it was rod blagojevich, the democratic governor of illinois, sentenced to an also impressive 14 years in prison after he was convicted on 17 corruption charges including s