legendary investor and founder of the vanguard group jack bogle joins us this morning in a cnbc exclusiveow are you? >> how are you, carl? nice to talk to you again. >> i would love to get your take just on this giant rotation we've seen in bonds, within equities. we talk a lot about you've preached for a long time that speculation is not a healthy habit, but people are making bets on what the next four years are going to look like. >> well, they are, but i think they're making a mainly on the basis of the short-term outlook. and it's pretty difficult to say that the trump program such as we know about it and complicated as it would be to implement is a lot of debt, a lot of infrastructure investing, big deficits, tax cuts and things like that. he's basically the new keynesian, carl. but that can't go on forever. in the long run i have a concern that anything that divides our economy further in terms of econom economics or race is bad for the society, bad for the economy and bad for the markets in the long run. and i think it takes trade barriers and raises them is bad for society and bad

from passives move to active, i was talking to jack bogle about a week ago, and i wonder, when you look responsibility does vanguard have? commentnot want to about specific companies, but when you think about innovation, etf's, definitely they play an important role in a portfolio, whether it is a retail portfolio or institutional portfolio. there'snk about it, been a lot of innovation in financial services that have helped investors achieve better outcomes. passive and etf has been an important part of that. managersve seen active and alternative managers getting a lot of value out of their portfolios as well. portfolio. toid: betty liu was talking larry gemelli yesterday. let me play a little bit of what he had to say. it was cmp, ins 2008, it was something else. this time it is etf. i don't think it's any harder. david: making the case that there is an argument to be made about the resurgence of active investment. mother always be a place for it, will it start to diminish? >> there will always be a place. going back to structural and cyclical factors that benefit certain styles of in

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