on the other hand, the jack bogle inside of me says do we really need to keep endlessly expanding thearket which is kind of what this is geared towards. it encourages market timing, it encourages day trading and we know that people make a lot of mistakes when they trade excessively. i don't think there's as much systemic risk out there right now. there is some concerns that the derivatives market gets so big that the tail starts wagging the dog. but the concerns have been around for a long time. gary gensler calls it gamification. he's been writing about it for awhile. but he does have a point about it. i understand why it's growing, it's been a huge hit in the last year. but let's be a little cautious about encouraging people to jump into day bets on the stock market. >> well, gary gensler can speak out about gamification of the markets and yet they approved this product, right? >> they absolutely did. look, it's -- it's one thing to stand up and say, oh, this is illegal, and somehow it's not illegal. look, the derivatives market, we don't know how big the derivatives market is. it d