he was using an instrument handed to him by jack kemp, kemp was was a cheerleader all along. >> was jack kemp considered an establishment today and what he appeal at all to the tea parties, the conservative wing of the republicans? >> kemp was conservative on all three stools of the conservative chair. he was an economic conservative obviously, very free market oriented, low taxes. he was conservative on foreign policy issues, he did think reagan was tough enough with the soviets. on social issues he was pro-life but he added to that with the whole effort that we talk about and wrote about in the book, he was a a great believer in civil rights. he regretted that he was not old enough at the time to be part of the civil rights movement. he was pro- immigration, these are things whether they make an establishment but they make him different. he is a different kind of a republican. one that we agree on of what republican should emulate now. he would be very popular now. certainly when he was pushing these tax cuts he was going around the establishment. not attacking them, not moaning and bl

host: what chapter would you recommend republicans read from this book on jack kemp? guest: that is a good question. really all you need to do is read the introduction. it is pretty long for an introduction to a book, but it really outlines what kemp did, why he did it, and what his career was like. and if you read another one called supply-side, it will help you. but there are so many others. jack camp had this really -- kemp had this really interesting and exciting career. guest: i completely agree with fred. if you read -- if you read the introduction, i think you will continue reading the book because it does sort of set up -- and if i do say so myself, i think it is pretty well written. [laughter] host: thank you both your time >> it would limit our ability to train, advise and assist, yes, sir. >> okay. mr. smith. >> thank you, mr. chairman. can you talk to us in general about the relationship between afghanistan and pakistan and the various groups that are involved there? i guess related to that is the conversation about reconciliation talks between the taliban

jack kemp was the cheerleader all along. >> would jack kemp be considered establishment today, and would he appeal at all to the tea party, the conservative wing of the republicans up there? >> kemp was conservative on all three schools the conservative share. he was an economic conservative obviously very free-market oriented and for low taxes. he was a very everybody can on foreign policy issues. he even didn't think reagan was tough enough with the soviets. then on social issues he was pro-life and -- but he added to that with this whole effort we've talked and little bitten about in the book, he was a great believer in civil rights and said, he regretted that he was not old enough at the time to be a part of the civil rights movement. he was very pro-immigration. these are things that -- i don't know they make him establishment but what they do is they make him different. he is a different kind of republican and one that mort and i agree is what republicans ought to emulate now, that he would be very popular now. certainly when he was pushing the supply side tax cuts he was not estab

jack kemp deserves a lot of credit for that.ark: he was an nfl quarterback, a congressman from a new york. he eventually gets on a ticket. how did he exercise so much influence as a congressman? >> he was a self-taught in economics. it turns out he had a better formula than all the keynesians and liberal economists in the 1970's. they didn't know what to do. he had a plan. it was to cut the rates, particularly on the wealthy, because they are the people that can invest to some extent. it was trickle-down economics. but the key thing was it worked so well. it became known as reaganomics. kemp put together a movement. it was really outside of congress. he was more of a presidential figure, even when he was a backbench house member. i see ted cruz now. he's trying to be a guide to do something in the senate, but all he does is yell at the leadership and say they are lying. john: when i think about it jack kemp, i think two things, one is inclusive and the other is optimistic. he was a bleeding heart conservative, self-styled, befor

and i knew jack kemp very well. wrote a lot of stories about him at first when i was at the " the baltimore sun" and then when i was at "the new republic." i always admired him. i basically agreed with him. his tax cuts really had a dramatic effect on the country. so when mort invited me i thought about it for maybe 25 seconds and decided to join him. then we had a great time doing it. i would say when i did this research i read a lot of journalism about jack kemp. even after we were already working i'd rediscovered that the best stories of what he was doing and why he was doing it, what people said about him, were friends. i kept sending it to him. he had completely forgotten me. i accept the compliment. host: what is it about jack kemp's politics that you think people should know about, especially today and especially on this day as republicans gathered behind closed doors to talk about who should be the next leader. kemp and theack great dynamic figure he was in favor of a big idea. the big idea was supply side a

a party where 52% or 53% are supportive of trump, carly and carson would have been supportive of jack kemp yeah, jack was a very dynamic figure. the republican party needs him. there's also a lesson from jack kemp for president obama. president obama is going to be remembered as the president who wouldn't compromise. a lot of what he's done is going to be erased by the new president if he or shes a republican. kemp was always ready to compromise. and the things that he succeeded in are things that are part of the fabric of the american society. >> i agree the country has a need for him. whether this incarnation of the gop would be receptive to him is a whole different question. gentlemen, the book is tremendous. i appreciate you being here. >> thank you. >> thanks, michael. >>> coming up trump and fiorina both ceos claiming their experience qualifies them to run the country. does it? i'll ask of someone who should know. former ceo jack welsh is here. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have

neil: okay, go ahead. >> jack kemp, jack kemp. neil: you had to be against the government intervening, because you can't be a little bit pregnant? >> jack kemp was never a libertarian. he did not believe that the government had no place in any activity. jack kemp was in favor of -- like lincoln was, he was a lincoln republican, he wanted government to assist people in rising and, you know, just letting, he was not laissez-faire. neil: you don't get my point, brilliant, both of you. fred, the argument for the intervention at the time, and it service as a metaphor for both you guys great book, that we have got to do this for the good of the country, that this is something that needs to be done. my fear with those who now and then change their minds on the value of government intervention is once you allow once you condone it, we build a system that is government dependent, even in the times that we were in. what do you say? >> that's true, but you're thinking, neil, you're thinking economically, you're thinking as an economic conser

he is closest to jack kemp on a number of fronts. he's got a positive outlook. nd visits ghettos and listens to people there along with bob woodson who was kemp's mentor in inner cities. he is in favor of immigration reform, thinks it's a growth strategy. i think he doesn't have the energy, the vim that jack kemp had, but in terms of what is in his head and his heart he has -- >> forgot one important thing. a big tax cut. he would lower the top rate on individual income to 25%. jack, he got reagan to reduce it from 70 to 50 and down to 28%. but this is lower. kemp didn't care about spending and the deficit. he says it's a bigger deal now. >> kemp was the optimistic voice of the party. what would he say to the freedom caucus today? >> he would be appalled by the way they are ripping the body apart and ripping the country apart. what i'm hoping -- i'm hoping that ryan will continue to not step into that -- >> he wanted to resist. >> because it's a hopeless task. he would be as thwarted as boehner and mccarthy were so what i'm hoping will happen is that boehner will

thank you, fred barnes, the book is called "jack kemp, bleeding heart conservative."k it's good for progressives, too. we'll be right back with "hardball" right after this. tylenol® 8hr arthritis pain has two layers of pain relief. the first is fast. the second lasts all day. we give you your day back. what you do with it is up to you. tylenol®. >>> let me finish tonight with this. sometimes the crazy comes through. i'm talking crazy politics here. i'll leave the clinical questions to the professionals. why would someone running for president, yes, sadly, it's ben carson, lay the blame on the young people in oregon who are just killed by a mass murderer? why would he say they should behave differently when he doesn't even know how they behaved seconds before they were killed. why say that when no one is talking about taking away their gun rights. why make such a drastic, even contemptible thing about gunshot victims at any time for any reason, what does carson mean when he says the road to tyranny lies to collecting people's guns when nobody is trying to collect peopl

thank you, fred barnes, the book is called "jack kemp, bleeding heart conservative." it's good for progressives, too. we'll be right back with "hardball" right after this. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought. can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? (ee-e-e-oh-mum-oh-weh) (hush my darling...) (don't fear my darling...) (the lion sleeps tonight.) (hush my darling...) man snoring (don't fear my darling...) (the lion sleeps tonight.) woman snoring take the roar out of snore. yet another innovation only at a sleep number store. you think it smells fine, but your wife smells this... sfx: ding music starts luckily for all your hard-to-wash fabrics there's febreze fabric refresher it doesn't just mask, it eliminates odors... ...you've gone noseblind to woman inhales use febreze fabric refresher till it's fresh and try pluggable febreze... ...to continuously eliminate odors for up to 45 days of freshness pluggable febreze and fabric refresher two mo

thank you, fred barnes, the book is called "jack kemp, bleeding heart conservative."good for progressives, too. we'll be right back with "hardball" right after this. sure! i offer multi-car, safe driver, and so many other discounts that people think i'm a big deal. and boy, are they right. ladies, i can share hundreds in savings with all of you! just visit progressive.com today. but right now, it's choosing time. ooh! we have a winner. all: what? [chuckles] he's supposed to pick one of us. this is a joke, right? that was the whole point of us being here. more "sit" per roll. more "stay" per roll. more "who's training who" per roll. bounty is two times more absorbent. so one roll of bounty can last longer than those bargain brands. so you get more "life" per roll. bounty. the long-lasting quicker picker upper. when you're not confident your company's data is secure, the possibility of a breach can quickly become the only thing you think about. that's where at&t can help. at at&t we monitor our network traffic so we can see things others can't. mitigating risks across y

jack kemp was a hard core conservative, but somebody who had big ideas. things like opportunity zones, things like the laugher curve he introduced ronald reagan to, supply side economics. like it or not, those were bold ideas and he believed in governing in congress and was a very effective congressman. i think that some of the republican members today might want to look at jack kemp as a model and paul ryan, if he is to be speaker will have jack kemp on his shoulder, i think. >> norm, doesn't that go to the question at what point does the black lash merit its own back laesh for republicans? >> of course it does. but keep in mind, ari, that on the presidential campaign side, you have john kasich who made -- >> did we lose norm? do we have anyone else? anyone else want to pick up where norm left off, eugene? >> well, i wouldn't try to pick up for norm, i would point out, however, one thing, which is that you don't have to be an elected member of congress to have a speaker of the house. the speaker of the house could be anybody. so maybe -- and this is real

i picked paul ryan, he's a jack kemp, ronald reagan type of conservative that doesn't back away from his principals but invites others to engage in the debate and then lines up to see where your boats are. i think that's the mature way of doing things. in when he and in bringing things to the floor. that's what members need and i think that's the essential to begin to change what i see is a dysfunctional congress. >> today jeb bush insisted his campaign is not on life support but his supporters and many donors are starting to wonder. >> i'm 7-0 in my fantasy football league. >> [laughter] >> when that is your most memorable line you know it's been a tough night. and for jeb bush -- >> i'm doing great but we're not gambling. >> even as fantasy football success was eclipsed. >> we have isis and al quaeda attacking us, people in debt and out of work and we're talking about fantasy football. can we stop? >> earlier he tried to tamp down marco rubios surging campaign his campaign is cooked. the heat on the campaign was already intense. the former florida governor has now dropped to fifth.

charles: everyone has great thins to say about jack kemp i agree. i think he was the -- if the term compassion conservative, but team say hold jack kemp up on a pe a -- you mentioned stab, there is still skepticism, 9 republicans who do not vote for him, that is not a lot, per say, but there are some open wounds within the party. how can he heal the chamber, bring compromise, which is a 4 letter word right now. >> you bring people together, include them in the process, have them discuss the issues that are going on. again, it is like what he did, with the trade bill this year, everyone got a say, i could -- during that whole process, i would see him sitting on floor talking with groups of people over the single member, he had meetings with people, he has great policy staff who are really you know we know them well, they are some of the hardest working staff on the hill who represen reach out, het in a great chief of staff in dave hopy, someone who not only worked in house but he worked in senate, we know, he can reach across to senate too. charles:

was a staffer in the senate and close to jack kemp and elected in 1998 at 28 and rises through two committees and loved the house. boehner loved the house and in that way they are the same. ryan has more ideological depth and roots with the party and that will help him as he grapples can the speakership in a very tum up theius time for his party. >> and people have already started calling him a rino. republican in name only because ofhings. >> because his stance on immigration and because he cut a deal on the budget with patty murray, the democratic senator from washington. that was in effect mimicked in this new budget deal. but paul ryan, because he was becoming speaker, was compelled to criticize the deal and say the process stinks. look, you cannot overestimate the service that john boehner did for paul ryan by doing this deal. because what it means is for the next -- at least year and a half, paul ryan will not have to do the things that make being a speaker in this republican party so hard. he's not going to have to cut a new budget deal. he's not going to have to raise the debt limit.

what had jack kemp have said? count me in, send me in coach. so i believe at the end of the day paul ryan will do this, but he's in a position of such strengths to negotiate some deals going in, it will make the job more doable than it is right now. >> that's the question, george, is he in a position of strength or not? at you heard jim jordan day, the freedom caucus isn't going to bowen say and say come on in. they're going to make demands. i think karl put his finger on it, which is yes, you get 218 now, but when you get to the debt limit or the budget or another issue, will you have the joets? >> a, i don't think so. b, i don't think that's the most consideration. rarely is this country have the right person in exactly the right place at the right time. the biggest problem confronting the company is economic stagnation, a product of unreformed entitlements and unreformed tax codes. government that can take the leadership is there, paul ryan in ways and means. it's now that we have this great orb strat, let's make him conductor. babe ruth is

>> listen, jack kemp was the perfect example of this.nd urban development secretary, he had enterprise zones where he said we need to get the government out of this, the strangle holds of tax increases, regulations, it's squeezing the life blood out of creating jobs in small businesses and the concept was very successful and it's unfortunate that the republican party has backed away from some of those principals because that was partly what was responsible for welfare reform in the '90s and urban centers from harl toem to washington d.. the government coming in and constantly being the answer. and to spark the economy and create jobs does not work. you need to have the private sector involved and the incentives to create job and teach people, small business in their communities. that's what works and that's the model jack kemp used and it's been successful. >> when you look at poverty, the poverty rate in this country has actually increased during the president's time in office. you see the numbers there on your screen from 13.2% when he

because it was jack kemp that introduced -- introduced me to boehner. at that time we acknowledged that there were democrats and republicans, but the whole idea that you could be vindictive enough to attempt to destroy someone politically or not work together as john did with george miller in bringing the leave no child behind, the work that i've done on ways and ans with trade, and was so open in dealing with john, who represented not an ideology but represented what he thought was best for the country, to me john boehner was, as so many people have said, just a regular guy. first one in his family, like so many of us, that went to college. entered public service. and through a variety of things became the speaker of the house that has to be just one of the greatest senses of pride that any american could ever have. the whole idea that there were people in this partisan time that would believe that they would want him to leave even more than democrats would want him to leave is something that would have to be explained by history. but of course things

remember that paul ryan is protege of jack kemp, the late jack kemp.ings through the prism of helping poor people, solving poverty, with conservative principles. he really wants to use this platform, like he wanted to use the house ways and means committee chairman, to advance that thought process. that jack kemp talked about all throughout his career. bill: he is optimistic as i pointed out last hour but sometimes when you get in the gig things change. they can change quickly. i think what boehner tried to do this week is to, what did he say, clear out the barn? give them a clean slate. take the budget issues perhaps off the table at least for now. i imagine that helps but there's still pressure on him to keep republicans together. >> yeah. it will get tested. the first big vote that comes down the pike but, he, boehner has bought some time here. the senate obviously has to approve the budget deal. mitch mcconnell has fast-tracked that despite what rand paul says in the senate he wants to filibuster, logistically he will not be able to do that. and ne

0 reconsider into ryan was expected to be at a big book launch last night and didn't show up for jack kemp who is his hero. a lot of people prying to get him to turn. in the race for president, dr. ben carson remains firmly at the center of controversy for his comments about guns. he writes in his new book that the disarming of german citizens helped lead to the holocaust which killed 6 million jews by the nazis. he was asked yesterday on cnn about linking those eventsn an interview. >> but just clarify. if there had been no gun control laws in europe at that time, would 6 million jews have been slaughtered? >> i think the likelihood of hitler being able to accomplish his goals would have been greatly diminished if the people had been arped. >> carson always said there's reasons these dictatorial people take the guns first. the anti-defamation league calls his comments historically inaccurate. >> spencer stone who took down a gunman on a train bound for paris is recovering from stab wounds in a california hospital. in the video, we see him fighting with a group of people outside in sacrame

just hired david long time capitol hill, important hire, he's insider but used to be jack kemp's chiefaff. we're watching ryan thread the needle. >> dickerson: paul ryan said he wanted to spend time with his family, but isn't fundraising one of the last levers a speaker has with member they can say, i want you to be with me on this vote i'll visit your hometown and do two fundraisers. >> i think that's right. it's one of the most important things that the speaker does. and one of the chips he can play with members and not something you can delegate. the number two in command, the number three not the same having that person come into your district as poe tossed to the speaker who is third in line to the presidency has a certain distinctive stature. >> dickerson: take the kids on the fundraiser, nothing more exciting. mark, i'll switch to the presidential race here talk to you about donald trump and ben carson. dutch said he's a counter puncher, but ben carson drives around the block to keep from hitting donald trump now donald trump is on variety of things. >> donald trump would say th

kemp did, why he did it, and what his career was like. and if you read another one called supply-side, it will help you. but there are so many others. jack camp had this really -- kemp had this really interesting and exciting career. guest: i completely agree with fred. if you read -- if you read the introduction, i think you will continue reading the book because it does sort of set up -- and if i do say so myself, i think it is pretty well written. [laughter] host: thank you both your time >> >> host: we are here with bethany mclean to talk about her new book "shaky ground" thanks for being here. first this is something i spend a lot of time thinking about i know of any mae and freddie mac the start by telling us why you wrote the book and why fannie and freddie are seven important. >> started to cover fannie in 2004 with the wake of the big accounting scandal. at the time i was shocked to find out that companies like this existed. but in this case it was created in the wake of the depression to help make home ownership more widely available. to buy of the loans that the lenders have made so then they make more loans. said the idea was

then the authors of a biography of former congressman and presidential candidate jack kemp. we'll also discuss the 2016 presidential election. "washington journal" is live each morning at 7:00 eastern with your phone calls, tweets and facebook comments. >>> thursday the house judiciary committee hoilds a hearing on planned parenthood practices and abortsion services. that's live at 2:00 p.m. east owner c-span3. >>> this sunday night on q&a, former senator and presidential candidate gary hart on "the republic of conscience," comparing the current government to the republic our founders intended. >> the founders used the language of greece and rome and warned against corruption. and their definition of corruption was not bribery or quid pro quo money under the table. it was putting special interests ahead of the common good. and by that definition, washington today is a massively corrupt place. >> sunday night at 8:00 eastern and pacific on c-span's q&a. >>> our c-span campaign 2016 bus is on the road to the white house tour. and this week was at the comcast studio xfinity sto

and had ties to jack kemp.say ryan is the right person for this time. >> we think that paul has the kind of vision and messager our party needs to accomplish what the voters were told we would accomplish. >> top congressional sources say they are close to a two- year budget deal. it would not be surprising that john boehner would not want to get something big and difficult done before retiring in the end of the done before the end of the wean. jen jenna. >> a company an all liealyzed h. they found that 2% of all samples contained human dna and they found human dna in two-thirds of all vegetarian samples. they appear to contain some kind of meat. >> how about the hot dogs on the street corners in new york city. >> oh, no. those are purebred, tested to the nth degree. >> we're going to need to do it. big changes could be coming to your classroom. president obama callould call ap on how long your tests take. and the world series on the line. next. plan choices and tools to take control. so they're more engaged, wi

of congressman jack kemp will discuss the 2016 presidential campaign. washington journal is live every morning with your phone calls, tweets and facebook comments. >>> thursday, the head of volkswagen michael horn testifies about allegations that volkswagen used software that circumstance vented emissions requirements for some of its diesel engine cars. live coverage starts at 10:00 a.m. eastern here on c-span3. >>> and i think every first lady should do something in this position to help the things she cares about. >> i just think that everything in the white house should be the best, the entertainment that's given here. so of course is our feeling for children. i think it is good in a world where there's quite enough to divide people that we should cherish a language and emotion that unite us all. >> jacqueline kennedy's 1,000 days as lady were identified as fashion icon, young mother and advocate for the arts. as television came to age, it was ultimately the tragic um manages of president ken' that cemented her in the public mind. jacqueline kennedy

paul ryan has done on entitlement reform and overall budgeting what jack kemp did on side economics.was a 1 m project under jack kemp to convince the party and the world about reducing rates and it was a one man project with ryan, who is convinceded that the entire republican caucus in the house could move towards those reforms. >> but he is clearly unable to run for some time presumably now that he is speaker. >> my question really is about outside the party, who do you think can best sell entitlement reform against hillary clinton presumably to everybody else? >> oh, well, this is going to be one where there are going to have to be 1,000 voices. it is not going to be one person. every single republican in the house less about 7 people have voted up to five times for the ryan budget plan which does all of these entitlement reforms. you have whole platoons out there talking to people. this is where the tea party could come back together with a focus that was completely helpful and forward looking. i think the outside groups and that, this is the perfect project for all of us >>> larr

because it was jack kemp that introduced -- introduced me to boehner.t that time we acknowledged that there were democrats and republicans, but the whole idea that you could be vindictive enough to attempt to destroy someone politically or not work together as john did with george miller in bringing the leave no child behind, the work that i've done on ways and ans with trade, and was so open in dealing with john, who represented not an ideology but represented what he thought was best for the country, to me john boehner was, as so many people have said, just a regular guy. first one in his family, like so many of us, that went to college. entered public service. and through a variety of things became the speaker of the house that has to be just one of the greatest senses of pride that any american could ever have. the whole idea that there were people in this partisan time that would believe that they would want him to leave even more than democrats would want him to leave is something that would have to be explained by history. but of course things ar

because it was jack kemp that introduced -- introduced me to boehner. at that time we acknowledged that there were democrats and republicans, but the whole idea that you could be vindictive enough to attempt to destroy someone politically or not work together as john did with george miller in bringing the leave no child behind, the work that i've done on ways and ans with trade, and was so open in dealing with john, who represented not an ideology but represented what he thought was best for the country, to me john boehner was, as so many people have said, just a regular guy. first one in his family, like so many of us, that went to college. entered public service. and through a variety of things became the speaker of the house that has to be just one of the greatest senses of pride that any american could ever have. the whole idea that there were people in this partisan time that would believe that they would want him to leave even more than democrats would want him to leave is something that would have to be explained by history. but of course things

he's an advocate of the policies of jack kemp.respect who he is. >> there are people in the freedom caucus who think he's too liberal. that's where the debate in congress right now that felt boehner and mccarthy has gone. people thinking paul ryan is too much of a swish >>well, you know, the challenge in our party is not so much that people have differing views on issues as much as people have differing views about how to get those issues implemented. there are some in our party who think the best approach is throwing bombs. the problem with bomb throwing so far is most of the bombs landed on our team. that doesn't help. the others think see if we can't find common ground with the people across the aisle. that's been the approach and you have paul ryan, for instance, willing to work with democrats. i think that's effective. i contrast that with hillary clinton saying that republicans are her enemies. that's not the approach for the president of the white house. i thought she might have talked about isis being her enemies or people

excuse me, jack kemp. i mean the guy seems to me to be a reagan republican through and through?n, don't get me wrong and he has conservative principles. i'm worried that he kicked two member, conservative members off of his budget committee when he was budget committee chairman. i want to know that he wouldn't do that as speaker just because conservatives vote their conscience. david: is there anything that paul ryan could do to change your mind? >> well, if he wins the election, speaker's election, he has my support. i will support him as speaker if he wins. but there is not much -- david: he says he will not put himself up unless he gets 80% of your caucus? >> i'm going to be talking with him later. he is meeting with the tea party caucus, not the freedom caucus, the tea party caucus. i know this gets confusing. david: you know what it sounds like? sounds like british parliamentarian democracy. doesn't sound look good ol' american democracy? >> i think republican party has always been a big tent and there has always been different views and hopefully he can unite us or daniel

the conversation inside the party around jack kemp.here are a lot of folks who have been saying we need to go back to the future, if you will, in order to understand exactly how to communicate on some of these hard principles that we believe in economically. but we don't do that. instead, we get caught up in investigations to nowhere and conversations that don't make sense to a lot of people. so i don't subscribe that the end result will be a hillary clinton presidency yet. what i do see is an opportunity for some of these candidates, if they decide they actually want to start running for president. >> and we reported about republicans trying to assemble money to do attack ads on the republican front-runner, donald trump. let's listen to what rush limbaugh said about that today. >> i have never seen, ever, a political party try to take down its front-runner. i mean, not like this. and i don't care what you think of trump but he's the front-runner and you would think the republicans want to win. >> e.j., rush has never seen anything lik

the person that he models his career after is jack kemp who exerted immense influence over the republican party from house ways and means committee, from being kind of a public national figure. paul ryan wants to be a unifying figure. we've seen him, you mentioned dabble in legislation where he's tried to play to role. it's remarkable, i think, that he has gotten to the point now where he is essentially saying that he's going to do the job. let's be honest. like that press conference that he just gave, there is no way that after saying that you know, i'm willing to do it now if these demands are met, that if one of his demands aren't met, he's going to go never mind, i'm not going to do it. >> that's what's so fascinating about this back and forth is each side trying to claim maximum leverage. the house freedom caucus beak saying we'll vote for daniel webster, someone who widely is seen as having no shot at being house speaker. they said we've 40 votes for him tied up. then they said paul ryan, we can take or leave him. paul ryan, he's a squish on immigration. >> paul ryan going here are

paul ryan sees himself as perfectionist in jack kemp mold. he won't see himself as success unless he gets entitlement reform and tax reform through. that is how paul ryan views the world. dagen: chuck, you have to wonder, what the freedom caucus does. you had majority of that faction of the party getting on board with paul ryan moving up into the speaker's job but will they play ball in months to come. >> i grew up in east texas you have a fire ant mound and it looks calm until you stick a stick in it and start stirring it up. everything looks fine now. ryan is the dog who caught the car. everything is calm and nice like what ford said. you let issue come up, freedom caucus came in on a wave, they have something to prove. really in some of the safests reddest districts in america. only way they get beat from somebody on right in primary. let controversial things come up in the house we'll be right back to where we were. >> let me say one thing a lot of people miss including media, sometimes dare i say fox news, one thing a lot of people don't