this is the way, dee barker, why does the innovators not include jack kilby in. >> guest: i love jacke's in the book in two different places and, i mean, jack kilby's great, plus when he gets the nobel prize, and he has such a wonderful answer when the swedish academy says the whole digital revolution comes from your thinking. he said it reminds me of what the weaver said to the rabbit -- the beaver said to the rabbit at the foot of the hoover dam which is no, i didn't build it, but it's based on a idea of mine. kilby and noyce kilby from texas instruments, the ability to have that rivalry and that race but then also to collaborate and work together, maybe the index is messed up. is it in the index? >> host: yeah. >> guest: okay. i urge people to read about jack kilby because i truly admire his spunk, his spirit, his ability to figure out how to etch transistors on silicon. so creative. and then doing it, and they have an intellectual property dispute, you know? a trade -- a patent war over who did it. and it took years to get through the courts and finally people at texas instruments