i have nothing against jack lui, the treasury secretary, who oversees the irs, but he is an obama guytely independent to oversee, to oversee the entire restructuring and changing and firing to get rid of the corruption. >> applies conspiracy, certainly, there was a great deal of incompetence. do we know which it was more of? >> you know, reading the inspector general's report and reading reports about the report, gee, whiz, i don't think this was about incompetency. i think this was politically directed by a growing number of people that we are learning about. some are even pressured by senators who don't like the campaign finance laws. i think you've got the map, there have to be massive firing. >> although they went after the smallest guys, not the guys who necessarily had a lot of money. where as the big money -- >> some of these tea party groups, we had bill henesee on, some of these groups pretty darn influential. is that a secret that's a conservative group? i would think not. you've got to play by the rules. they were making threats to these people. >> "the washington post" sai