that's stanley leverson and jack o'dell. jack was an organizer for the maritime union, and jack when he appeared before a committee, he had taken the 5th amendment and so forth. now, the difference between jack and stanley in relationship to martin, that is, is that stanley had told martin, had told him that he had been a member of the communist party, and he had severed relationships with them, okay? jack o'dell never told martin. it just never became an issue, but he never told him, okay? when srb -- so what when president kennedy revealed this thing about stanley, i don't know exactly what martin said in the conversation with the president, but, in fact, he told me, i told the president i knew about stanley's background, but was surprised with jack's. the president said they had to go. in fact, they used the analogy at that time, there was a scandal with the mcmillian government, and he said, i don't want -- if you get brought down as a civil leader, you bring us down because we have a major civil rights building. you have