jack otter is editor of barrons.com, he joins us tonight. jack, not a new debate but new numbers really tell a story here. >> yes, jeff, you know, you can't control what the stock market does, what inflation does what interest rates do to your retirement accounts. one of the few things you can control is the fees you pay. most accounts give you an option between actively managed funds in which professional stockpickers try to beat market or an index fund that just owns all the stocks in the market. of course they charge fees for that. the actively managed funds charge more. >> jeff: they argue they are experts and know better. >> it sounds logical. who wants average returns. but the reality is that it's very hard for actively-- active managers to beat the index after fees. in fact, 80% of active managers fail to keep up with the indexes. >> some of these numbers are pretty stunning am we have some examples here. >> exactly. say if you take a 25-year-old woman who makes the average salary for that age, $30,500. she invests in active managed fu

let's bring in heritage foundation steve moore and charlie gasparino and jack otter are here as well.teve moore, what did you think about this one? big surprise or not really. >> surprised to me she lasted as long as she did. five years is long time to be a cabinet secretary. she is like conjoined twin with respect to obamacare. her whole legacy will be decided over the next few years as whether this thing is a complete flop or whether it make as recovery. i happen to think it will be an economic and health care flop. but, interesting thing is, the new choice, this former budget director, who knows. maybe melissa, we might put someone in hhs who wants to control costs. that would be a first. melissa: do you think that is really possible or are you being glib? >> i mean, actually i do think the fact that she comes from omb background that manages, pennies and quarters and billions of dollars i think that is probably a good thing. melissa: go ahead. >> people, tim geithner was supposed to be a fairly middle of the road treasury secretary until he gets brainwashed by president obama. i m

joining me now, charlie gasparino, jack otter of "barron's" and jonathan hoenig of capitalist pig hedge fund. jack, what do you think, does he have a shot at this one? >> i think he has a shot but problem with jumping on this, assuming the defense department says, sure, anybody can send a satellite off with top security. this is -- melissa: he made it into the space industry. no one thought he could do that. this seems easier. >> i think he is capable technologically -- melissa: he got the contract. he convinced them to give him a contract with spacex? >> this is highly sensitive stuff. they want to make sure he is a good relationship and doesn't turn into edward snowden guy on the. >> look at phil falcone, that he went through with lightsquared and how he thought he had approval, from i think it was from the justice department to get that part of the satellite and he didn't. and it screwed up his whole business model. when you deal with the government it is very touchy. listen, he is not betting the ranch. that was phil's program he bet the ranch on that business model. he is not doing