but when it comes to jack ruby and the trial of jack ruby, i think that it becomes nearly impossiblet jack ruby was in on a conspiracy. >> host: that was november 26, 1963. 1963. the grand jury indicted him almost immediately. didn't the seat almost immediately? >> guest: yet. this case moved forward and incredibly quickly. it's not like the evidence was ambiguous, right? he was there on video shooting oswald but yes, the case moved forward pretty quickly and he, and his defense evolvable as his defense team changed as well. meaning that probably the best defense ruby could've had and the defense that he was initially pursuing before he got melvin as his lawyer, famous lawyer and a perfect and him, was that is going to argue that he kind of lost it. heat of passion. he sees oswald. he had always loved kennedy. he sees the smirk on his face and he shoots and kills them. probably would've gotten a relatively lenient sentence, might of been out in five years but instead melvin pursues an insanity defense and an insanity defense means you have to literally not understood right from wrong

jack ruby case i think again was more entertainment. people were interested, fascinated by saying jack rebeccay. so, it depends on the case as to the motivation for the people who were there. but in every single one of the cases even though the majority of them with the exception of the john adams case had largely been forgotten to history, when they happened, they were a huge deal. that is one of the things we found so exciting is these were big, big trials tetteh -- at the time. host: dan dreams host on dan abrams on siriusxm tkhaoefrl legal analyst of abc news and abrams media and media quite and law and crime network and he is the author of the books we have been talking about. dan: thanks for having me. host: if you missed any of this it will re-air in just a few minutes. >> american history tv documents america's stories and book tv brings you the latest books and authors. you think this is just a community center? it is way more than that. they are partnering with a thousand community centers so students can get tools they need to

jack ruby case i think again was more entertainment. people were interested, fascinated by saying jack rebeccay. so, it depends on the case as to the motivation for the people who were there. but in every single one of the cases even though the majority of them with the exception of the john adams case had largely been forgotten to history, when they happened, they were a huge deal. that is one of the things we found so exciting is these were big, big trials tetteh -- at the time. host: dan dreams host on dan abrams on siriusxm tkhaoefrl legal analyst of abc news and abrams media and media quite and law and crime network and he is the author of the >> it started when my co-author david fisher approached me. i did not know him well.

but with jack ruby and the trial, it becomes nearly impossible that jack ruby was in onon a conspiracy. >> november 26, 1963 command that grand jury almost indicted himte immediately. >> yes. as the caseui forward incredibly quickly it's not like the evidence is ambiguous. he was there on video shooting oswald period with the case moved forward pretty quickly. and his dissent changed as his defense team change. so probably the best offense will be could have had that he was initially pursuing was that he would argue he lost the s nac passion. he sees the smirk on his face and shoots andhe kills him. and probably would have gotten a lenient sentence, maybe out in five years but. but instead he pleads and not understood white on —- right from that is a much suffered defense with a high-profile lawyer who loved the spotlightgo and i think he wanted to go for all or nothing. he wanted to win the acquittal of jack ruby and that is a legal matter and that is a great disservice to jack ruby in that regard. >> that was march but justice seemed to move faster. >> i don't think a case particular

jack ruby case i think again was more entertainment. people were interested, fascinated by saying jack rebeccay. so, it depends on the case as to the motivation for the people who were there. but in every single one of the cases even though the majority of them with the exception of the john adams case had largely been forgotten to history, when they happened, they were a huge deal. that is one of the things we found so exciting is these were big, big trials tetteh -- at the time. host: dan dreams host on dan abrams on siriusxm tkhaoefrl legal analyst of abc news and abrams media and media quite and law and crime network and he is the author of the welcome everybody to the cato institute. i'm ian vasquez, vice president for international studies. here it is easy, but wrong to become pessimistic about the state of the world to think that everything is getting worse. we, after all, wired to focus on the negative on the possibility that danger is surrounding us. that's how humanity, after all, has survived for hundreds of thousands of years

to jack ruby in that regard. host: that trial was in march 1964. justice seemed to move faster than it did today. dan: i don't think you would ever see a case like that, particularly with an insanity case, move forward with anything like that sort of speed today. and there were, by the way, expert witnesses who question him in preparation for the trial, both seclusion and defense. but i think you are actually right that in a case like that, there's no way you would see a trial in a matter of a few months of someone like jack ruby today. host: jack ruby had to appeal his case, correct? dan: look, jack ruby did, but he ultimately died in prison, and he was -- he had won an appeal for a new trial and was about to get a new trial when he died in prison. i think he would have pursued this defense. i think he would have pursued the "i lost it was quote defense instead of the insanity defense if there had been a new -- i lost it" defense instead of the insanity defense if there were a new trial. host: how widely reporte

but when it comes to i jack ruby in the trial of jack ruby i think it becomes nearly impossible jack ruby was in on a conspiracy. >> that was november 26 , 63. the grand jury indicted him almost immediately. what's an almost immediately? >> this case moved forward incredibly quickly. it is like the evidence was ambiguous. he was there on video shooting oswald. but yes the case moved forward fairly quickly. his defense evolved as his defense team changed as well. meaning probably the best defense ruby could have had in the best defense he was initially pursuing before he got melvin as his lawyer a very famous lawyer and representing him was he was going to argue that he kind of lost it. in a heatn. of passion pretty ss oswald, he has always loved kennedy. he sees the smirk on his face and he shoots and kills him. probably would have gotten relatively lenient sentence. might've been out in five years instead melvin pursues an insanity defense. an insanity defense means you have to literally not have understood it right from wrong. much tougher defense. was a hope wrote high profile lawy

what's the terribly complicated story and you know during the morning period the shock of jack ruby shooting lee harvey oswald the assassinated the assassin of the president on live television. i mean it was just an absolute crisis one after the other and i don't think young people understand that chaos and how he came through it. yeah. sir louis you mentioned that prior to hoover most of these processions were unplanned. so i was wondering if you could shed some light on how administrations and prior to the 25th amendment would balance the expectation of showing morning for presidents who died in office with also the obligation to continue to provide governance to the american people. they i mean they managed to do both there was always the transition of power. i mean after lincoln edwin stanton probably had more power than than president johnson for a while, but the but the funerals were paramount they were away. there was this urge especially in the case of presidential assassinations like garfield and lincoln that was just this this mass public urge to say farewell and and to see to see

author of several books including lincoln's last trial, kennedy's adventures about the trial of jack rubynd alabama versus king. martin luther king and the criminal trial that launched the civil rights movement. join into the conversation with your calls, texts and tweets. on book tv and c-span2. >> the u.s. supreme court returns this week for a new term, continuing with livestreamed oral arguments. it follows a year of decisions that have had significant public policy implications. follow the court including oral arguments at c-span.com/supreme court. for a look at some of the most high-profile rulings, download c-span's landmark cases podcast, which explores the issues, people and places involved in some of the most significant supreme court cases in our nations history. the landmark nations podcast is available on c-span's website. >> middle and high school student, it is your time to shine. you are invited to participate in c-span's studentcam competition. nature yourself as a newly elected member of congress. what is your top priority and why? make a five to six minute video that sho

jack ruby, like, guns him down, kills him before he can talk? my god.y need to release -- i'm not a conspiracy theorist, but as you say, this stuff doesn't add up. i always tell my kids. when something doesn't make sense it doesn't make -- there's a reason. >> yeah. >> dig deeper. so this is fascinating. >> thank you very much. >> and the decision, mark when do we get this information? >> a good question. supposed to be december 15th. who knows? again, this happened 60 years ago. >>> coming up -- thanks mark -- former president obama has advice for democrats ahead of midterms. don't be a buzz kill. >> what you tell me all the time. >> no, no. democrats. don't -- be -- a -- buzz kill. play for you his comments on that and what he said about cancel culture. >>> plus republican governor's arkansas joins us about a big conference kicking off today for conservatives. >>> "morning joe" is coming right back. ba ck. you need a bed that's smart enough for both of you. the sleep number 360 smart bed senses your movements and automatically adjusts to help keep you

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he wore fancy rings or rubies in them and he had a scabbard on one of his swords that had gemstones. so yes, we do have some record that people would dress a little bit like jack spar. even maybe more flamboyantly, but you have to remember regular -- of the time merchant --, you know, they were you know big pantaloons, so you call them or they were things that were sometimes colorful not quite to the extent of jack sparrow. so yes, that's sort of true. but about barry tragedy they have a bury their treasure. no, there's not a single record of any pirate bearing the treasure. that doesn't mean there's not it's not out there. but if you watched oak island again, i only watch one episode and it was so boring. i i don't know how they strung it out for so many seasons and they never really found the treasure from i understand, but there's not a single shred of evidence that a pirate ever buried their treasure on land and then left. why would they first they may never get back there, you know their life was short and brutish and who knows that they're gonna get back. second they might find it difficult to get back there just navigationally and third wouldn't they be

rubies in them. and he had a scabbard on one of his swords that had gemstones. so yes, we do have some record that people were dressed a little bit like jack sparrow, even maybe more flamboyantly. we have to remember regular seamen at the time, merchant seamen, they wore big pantaloons. they wore things that were sometimes colorful. not quite to the extent of jack sparrow. yes, that's sort of true. >> what about buried treasure? did any of them bury their treasure? >> no, there's not a single record of any pirate burying their treasure. that does not mean it's not out there. if you watched oak island, again, i only watched one episode, it was so boring. i don't know how they strung it out for so many seasons. and they never really found the treasure, from what i understand. there's not a single shred of evidence that a pirate ever buried their treasure on land and then left. why would they? first, they may never get back there. their life was short and brutish. and who knows if they are going to get back second? they might find it difficult to get back, navigational, third, wouldn't they be worried about somebody doubling back? someone els