so jack smith's case is about the entire coup plot. the georgia case you have the whole country and washington and all the different states, and georgia was just this georgia part. but now that people are confessing and flipping in that georgia part, let me tell you something. what happens in georgia may not stay in georgia, and this is sort of the conclusion of the report we want to show you based on our new legal analysis right out from what we've been doing as a team here on "the beat." i'm going to show it to you both cases together here. this is where you see a defendant like trump is in a worst spot than a few weeks ago now. that's a lot on your screen, and what you've got to know it's really tough for the top defendant and double for donald trump. this is way worse than where trump was just two week uzgo because the top witness of all, trump white house veteran mark meadows is now cooperating with jack smith. if you go to the right of trump he's indicted in georgia and a jack smith doj witness. so he faces, though, the heat from

he went right back to attacking jack smith, of course. callingim, quote, deranged, claiming he is a weapon of the current president and accusing him of planting a story about trump in the new york times. the times is reporting that it has another unique data danger that donald trump reports to the country. the report details secret recordings of conversations between trump and ebony pratt. an australian billionaire who is looking to curry favor with the then-president. the times reports that on those recordings, quote, mr. trump described mr. pratte described mr. trump's businesses as being, quote, like the mafia. according to covert recordings obtained by 60 minutes australia, and shared with the times. he also speaks admiringly about how mr. trump learned from his mentor, the lawyer and fixer roy cohn, how to walk up to the line of illegality without crossing it. he has got incredible balls, mr. pratt says. trump says, would you go and tell that guy over there to steal from me? and so he can say, i never told the guy to steal. and thing

telling abc news an australian billionaire who was friends with trump has told special counsel jack smith's team that the former president shared potentially sensitive information about america's nuclear submarines while at mar-a-lago, and after donald trump left the white house. abc news learning that that billionaire allegedly shared those u.s. nuclear secrets with dozens of others, including foreign officials, even his own employees. here's jonathan karl. >> reporter: an australian billionaire and member of donald trump's mar-a-lago club has told special counsel jack smith's team that the former president told him potentially sensitive information about the capabilities of america's nuclear submarines, sources familiar with the matter tell abc news. the alleged disclosure took place at mar-a-lago in april 2021, months after trump left the white house. the billionaire, anthony pratt of u.s.-based pratt industries, then shared the information with scores of others, including more than a dozen foreign officials, several of his own employees, and a handful of journalists, according to the so

i think is there corroboration for any statements that he told jack smith? and that's what's gonna matter. did he turn over documents? did he -- the january 6th committee he provided that treasury trove of text messages. >> he likes to text. >> he does. those are the independent corroboration that could bolster an otherwise damaged witness here. >> is this the mark meadows you know, this mark meadows making a deal like this? >> the mark meadows i thought i knew is a different man than turned out to be the public-facing version. i think the most consistent thing folks in washington who know mark meadows will say is that he talks out of both sides of his mouth. he is innately -- >> everyone in barbie does that. >> right. but he particulars to a sport level. he wants to stay in the good graces of certain people. i will speculate a little bit. knowing him very well for many years, he is a good attorney, george tur will ger. i think he is giving him tound legal advice about how far he should should go in cooperating with the department of justice but mark meadows

that important evidence for jack smith to have. of the immunity coin is prosecutors are genuinely not -- why,? because it's essentially giving someone a pass for their own criminal conduct in exchange for extracting from them the in criminal information about somebody else and without getting too far down into the weeds, the oliver north situation is a cautionary fill. because during the affair, when it's called to testify they were giving immunity before congress and then he was prosecuted and convicted. and his conviction got reversed tick up busted on appeal because the appellate court was not confident that none of the immunized testimony did not come back and it wasn't used by prosecutors. so immunity is great but it can often make a future prosecution of somebody like mark meadows more challenging for prosecutors. so there are two sides to the immunity going here. >> i know you clarify that for, assembly that what could potentially be a challenge for jack smith ducey pursuits this deal, or i should say cooperation deal with m

eric garland and jack smith would say well mr. hamilton the guy has clearly says this is not enforceable and there might be other considerations. but the american people outside of washington, d.c., if we transport this room and we go to sioux falls or savannah, georgia or anywhere across the country and you tell the american people these are the charges we are bringing against the president of the united states what do you think? you will be shocked that on a bipartisan basis everybody sees through what they are doing. nobody sees this as legitimate prosecution. in washington, d.c. it is the case. oh gosh, the georgetown parties and everything else, everybody wants to talk about did you see this allegation, nuclear secrets. but, everybody knows that this is being done for political purposes, each of the indictments, especially the federal ones. we can talk about the georgia one. and in new york. but the reason why you have these principles and the reason why the department has outlined them in writing for every ausa and federal p

not only in atlanta, but also in the federal january 6th trial for jack smith. mark meadows. and mark meadows was, as you know, wolf, donald trump's shadow the entire time he was chief of staff. he will know every conversation, every lie, every illegal action that was taken by donald trump. and he's going to be able to testify to it. and he's not going to be able to back off of what he told me, which was he considered mark meadows the next james a. baker iii. well, if you think he's got that much integrity, trust, and honor, that's the wrong person to have sit in the witness chair pointing the finger of guilt at you if you're donald trump. and that's going to affect republican voters as we get ready to vote in iowa, in new hampshire, over the next three to four months. >> do you think these plea deals, these immunity deals, will lead to even more people from trump's inner circle seeking immunity or a plea deal, for that matter, with the prosecutors? >> of course it will, wolf. because it's like a game of musical chairs. there's only so many chairs, and there's a

jack smith's case against trump. and most critically tonight, a rico defendant in that georgia case where she was booked for her mug shot. she was awaiting trial next week. the news tonight? she just pled guilty today, a bid to duck potentially harsher penalties in that criminal case. unlike the federal case, today the cameras were rolling today in the georgia courtroom. you can see the defendant now convict sitting there this is where a one-time presidential lawyer became a convict. she admitted her guilt in the efforts to overturn trump's loss, and like any other defendant, she conceded it all under questioning by the judge. >> are you pleading guilty today because you agree that there is a sufficient factual basis, that there are enough facts that support this plea of guilty? >> ido. >> that is a huge breakthrough in the rico case against trump. it's drivingajor headlines today about this lawyer powell pleading and flipping on trump, which strengthens the rico prosecutor's case at this pivotal time, a time where,

former president trump's final chief of staff in the white house has spoken with special counsel jack smith'sthree time this is year, including once before a federal grand jury, which came only after smith granted meadows immunity to testify under oath according to sources familiar with the matter. those sources said meadows informed jack smith's team he told trump in the weeks after the 2020 presidential election that the allegations of voting frautd come account to them were baseless, a striking break regarding the election. your entire work of your committee sought to prove layer upon layer, witness after witness. this is one the select committee wasn't able to get to. your retoox this reporting from abc news? >> yeah, if it's true, it is the most significant evidentiary development in the entire investigation. there's no one who was closer to the former president in the days between the election and his reluctant release of of the white house than mark meadows. if mark meadows is now finally after repeated invitation under an immunity grant telling the truth about the fact that there was

attacked meadows for, which possibly led to the reinstatement, or possibly, i should say, lead to jack smith for the reinstatement h gag order which was issued just a orwhile ago. meadows has reportedly spoken with smith's team at least three times this year, including once before a federal grand jury, which came only after the special counsel granted him immunity. a deal between mark meadows and the government has been the topic of speculation now for months, but this latest reporting from abc news marks the first time that we received confirmation that a deal actually exists. along with that reporting comes new details about what mark meadows algedly told investigators behind those closed dos. sources tell abc news that meadows told mms team that he repeatedly informed trump in the weeks after the 2020 presidential election that the allegations of significant voting fraud coming to them -- also toldinvestigators that's former boss was being, quote, dishonest with thepublic when he claimed to have won the election only hours after polls closed and before final results were in. glenn kirschn

it's part of jack smith's push for a gag order in the d.c. election interference case. now retired military general mark milley. trump falsely claimed milley committed, quote, treason, suggesting that in a different time, quote, the punishment would have been death. smith also highlighting trump's menacing public statements about his former vp, mike pence, and citing the comments trump made on "meet the press" about bill barr. >> guys like bill barr, who was a stiff, but he wasn't there at the time, but he didn't do his job. because he was afraid. you know what he was afraid of? of being impeached. >> milley, pence, and barr are all possible government witnesses at this trial. and then there's trump's recent visit to a gun store. afterwards, trump's spokesman announcing trump bought a gun before then walking it back, and prosecutors saying in this filing, quote, the defendant either purchased a gun in violation of the law and his conditions of release, or seeks to benefit from his supporters' mistaken belief he did so. joining me is joyce vance, former yoourns attorney

meadows was reportedly granted immunity by special counsel jack smith in the federal election interference case to testify under oath. nbc news has not confirmed that reporting, but if true, it would be catastrophic for trump given how involved meadows was in the conversations and efforts to overturn the 2020 election results. and what he might know about, i don't know, trump's mishandling of classified documents. meadows' attorneys have called the abc reporting, quote, largely inaccurate. still, according to "rolling stone," over the to the best of your memory, trump's allies and close advisers believed meadows was cooperating with the special counsel, referring to him in mob lingo as a rat. trump lashed out at his potentially damming deal last night, again, referring to special counsel jack smith as a quote, deranged prosecutor, and claiming that any potential witnesses like meadows who made such a deal are weaklings and cowards. fortunately for trump, the recent gag order put in place by judge tanya chutkan in the federal election interference case have been put on hold. otherwise those

he was dealing with jack smith's team. i don't want to say cooperating. but dealing with georgia, which he clearly turned his back on and where he was charged. . the fact that he was charged in georgia. but this raises for me anyway some questions about how much immunity he would be given because he's already a problematic witness in a lot lot of ways. he wrote a whole book that he testified much the opposite to, right, he gave a bunch of other public statements, there's a lot of things that a defense lawyer could use to try to poke holes at him. >> i glad you brought the book up. what abc is reporting tonight is one of the quotes that mark meadows told to jack smith's team, obviously we didn't win, is what he told them. and the election that was stolen, rigged from the liberal media, also in the book the people who rigged this election knew eventually these irre irregularities would come to light and attacked anyone dare ask questions. if you're jack smith, if you're a grand jury, testifying now, his book that came out of election. >> i'm having flashbac

, but if i am jack smith, i am picking up the phone and calling d.a.here and saying that you have flipped sidney powell, and we would like to talk to her, too, because if you believe that she has come clean, and you can put her on the stand, then we as well would like to put her on the stand, and maybe she has to work out a separate deal with jack smith, but if she has come clean, then if i am jack smith, i want her as a witness. >> that is going to be interesting and i can't help but believe that she going to testify there. and now, sidney powell was at the december -- what meeting? >> december 18th. >> talk to me about who was there, because that is a source of the drama of what happened before january 6th. >> i don't want to list everybody off of the top of my head, because i might misspeak one of the heads, but it is the people central to the white house, and i believe that there were people quite high up both in the white house and in the legal world around donald trump and there was shouting at that meeting about what to do that people like sidne

this is from jack smith's side to rethe state the gag order.e, indictment notes for example when the vice president refused to agree to the defendant's request -- h told the vice president the defenda would have to publicly criticize him which caused the vice president chieff staff sufficient concern he quote alerted the vice president secret detail. he seeks to use it to strategic advantage while simultaneously claiming responsibility. this is getting back to the first amendment issues as well as the threat of violence. the federal judge in this case has already had her life threatened. a woman was threatening to kill her if trump wasn't re-elected in 2024. how is that -- the reality of violence. we talk about the specter of violence or imagery of violence. the reality of violence of people who went out and committed crimes after january 6th, how does that influence these proceedings? >> i think it influences them a great deal. and one of the things that has been most notable for people watching this from a first amendment vantage point is tha

how does this dovetail with jack smith's case?e is, if you remember with jack smith's case, i wrote believe miss powell was coconspirator number three. mr. chesebro was unindicted coconspirator number five. if you look at both of their pleas, they were warned that pleading to this particular state court indictment might have other implications in the federal case. i think we are all waiting to see -- where these part of a global deal for either defendant? had there been discussions with mr. smith? we don't know at this point. >> what would be the telltale signs of a global deal, if there was one? >> well, i think you would see maybe commitments to testify in the federal case. something along those lines, where there's a more direct tie. i'm just not aware of that so far. >> as you understand it, right now, we don't have dates for the rest of the defendants in the georgia case. >> right. >> do you think jack smith's case, which is set for march, is going to go before fani willis's case? >> i do think so. again, we don't have any ot

i think the real question is whether miss powell's attorney had conversations with jack smith.defense attorney would look at this as a global issue rather than just pleading different parts. and i can't believe that he would have his client go under oath admitting guilt in a state case when there is still a risk of an indictment in the federal case. so i'm assuming there had to be coordination at least on the defense side. >> so andrew, the backstage scenario there is fani willis makes an offer, there is an offer on a guilty plea, and the criminal defense lawyer calls up jack smith and says, hey, i've got an offer down here, can you give me something up there that will cover everything? >> so i completely agree with gwen that the defense will have tried to do that because, just imagine a scenario where sydney powell testifies in state court, is required to testify truthfully. if she doesn't, she's going to jail in state court. but everything she says in state court can be used against her in federal court. those are still admissions. so you would definitely want to try to do th

jack smith essentially laughed at that.r colleagues, ryan riley, about the online sleuths who have exposed so many of the capitol insurrectionists. he's written an incredible book called "sedition hunters: how january 6th provoked the justice system." he'll join us at the table. we'll continue after a break. ntk this is spring semester at fairfield-suisun unified. they switched to google tools for education because there's never been a reported ransomware attack on a chromebook. now they're focused on learning knowing that their data is secure. ( ♪♪ ) when migraine strikes you're faced with a choice. ride it out with the tradeoffs of treating? or push through the pain and symptoms? with ubrelvy, there's another option. one dose works fast to eliminate migraine pain treat it anytime, anywhere. without worrying where you are or if it's too late. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. allergic reactions to ubrelvy can happen. most common side effects were nausea and sleepiness. migraine pain relief starts with u. ask about

every minute she's going after donald trump jack smith aside the fact that he's a special prosecutor, rest of the country sees the rest of the country is suffering from a crime epidemic and every ounce of energy you spend on going to a political prosecution, you're not diverting to solving the homicides and preventing shoplifting crimes, we have real problems in this country, real rule of law so absolutely there major constitutional state prosecutions, major constitutional problems with the federal prosecution but as a principal prosecution although they are at the state level, their cognizant in what was once look for the accepted and prosecutors district attorney, d whoever as reason she wouldn't go after that. we have a few minutes left so let's open up to questions. >> it's interesting to me when you charge of judgment against somebody is a justice department official, his boss negate that memo they decide to make it a felony and bump it up rico status. what it tells me, is that the new standard recharge people inside the justice department those decisions that never leave the bui

now jack smith is saying pull the stay based on what he said about mark meadows.t if jack smith could make that a condition of his pretrial release that he does not attack witnesses like mark meadows and that trump violates it, yes, he could be wearing an orange jumpsuit, but i think that's down the line. >> let's talk about donald trump's potential defenses. one defense he's been sort of workshopping publicly is i was just listening to my lawyers. what happens if you were listening to urlawyers and three of your lawyers plead out in georgia? can you still use that defense? >> if he uses that defense, he's got to take the stand. there's no way his lawyers are going to let him take the stand. it will be a perjury trap. and yeah, it makes it harder when your lawyers have cooperated and said no, that wasn't what i told him. and you know, that's it. you start making that defense. you waive attorney/client privilege. >> in a sense, there was a previous judge that breached the privilege. the privilege is kind of gone, right? they can't climb it anymore, and in the case

how does jack smith go about proving something like that? one, think there are criteria to even get an advice of counsel defense. because the way this comes up in a trial is that the defense will try to put on enough evidence to support a request for a jury instruction, so that the jury could, if they find you that reasonably relied on the advice of counsel, they could potentially acquit on a particular charge. but to even get that, there is criteria that includes, you as the client, first of all, had a counsel relationship. that is maybe more clear with respect to giuliani, maybe less so with respect to sidney powell, but also that you provided your counsel with all relevant information known to you and sought that counsel's advice. so there are a bunch of stuffs that we still don't know about how he might go to prove. and i think this is also part of the things that jack smith and his team are looking into. >> can i ask what this does -- this information -- to rudy giuliani's defense? he is an unnamed coconspirators in the federal indictme

that's damaging to jack smith. when you have a chance of breaching the security systems and otherwise looking as it relates to what was sidney powell's guilty plea, that also helps. i think in any way you slice it, however you want to spin it from a guilty plea sper speck tib in georgia or jack smith, the testimony would be damning against a president. these lawyers were giving advice, and we know the advice was unlawful in an attempt to circumvent and vilify a system of democracy. >> joey jackson, thank you. >>> ahead, our coverage of the israel war continues. we're live from egypt with more humanitarian aid to head into gaza. >>> this week's cnn hero is focusing on families waiting to enter the u.s. legally. >> when she learned some children are out of school for weeks, months, or years, this native colombian, once a migrant child herself, decided to bring the classroom to them. >> i kept feeling like the weight of this crisis was on my shoulders. schools are the way to be able to help them heal. i thought we cou

how does this fit into jack smith's case? >>> and russia launching one of the deadliest strikes on ukraine yet. putin claims he didn't start the war. he's just trying to end it. let's go "outfront." good evening. i'm erin burnett. tonight, donald trump for speaker? trump saying tonight he will take the job, telling fox news digital today, i quote, they have asked me if i would take it for a short period of time for the party until they come to a conclusion. i'm not doing it because i want to. i will do it if necessary. also telling fox he'll visit the capitol on tuesday. the vote is expected to be wednesday and this will be trump's first visit to the capitol since the insurrection on january 6th. nearly three years ago. make no mistake. there are plenty of republicans who don't want trump getting involved. >> you do not want trump to come? >> no, i think the discussion should be focused on the people that are in the conference. >> but the reality of course is that it is a deeply divides, chaotic party, and some of the republi

but this idea of immunity, what would jack smith give to mark meadows, in exchange for the testimony that we appeared to see outlined here, which is that trump knew, and was told, that the election was not stolen? >> right. so again, there are so many different forms of immunity, and cooperation. and i think we are all struggling a little bit, because it is based on one report. we don't know exactly what it looks like yet. and so, we have to be a little bit careful of, did he get just immunity from going into the grand jury, and testifying? that is a very formal, but narrow, type of immunity. it is not a full on, as we usually talk about cooperation agreements, people really flipping. that doesn't mean that it is not valuable to prosecutors, it absolutely would be, if the substance is what we are hearing that it is. because, in whatever form, it turns on its head, trumps what is likely to be his central defense of, i believe that i really won the election. no you didn't, even your chief of staff was telling you that there was no real fraud. so, that is one form. there could be a full

but jack smith is going to be engaging him.oing to let these comments go, that he's going to act, he's going to go to the court. if donald trump sfajz a stunt where he pretends to buy a gun, that's going to be in a motion. if donald trump suggests the death penalty for one of the nation's most prominent generals and a potential witness in his case, he's going to go to court. so i think this battle is joined but donald trump is certainly not backing off. you saw that in new york this morning, that this is not a donald trump who is in any way going to respect the norms of the criminal justice system until he absolutely has to. >> yes. today in new york was donald trump defendant boo-hoo out there complaining at every turn. charlie and mimi stick around a little bit longer. glenn thrush, thank you very much for starting us off this hour with your reporting. we are grateful. >>> when we come back, back to the story that started our broadcast today. the trump fraud trial in new york. "new york times" reporter suzanne craig was in th

take a look at jack smith, take a look at these people. this is called election interference, and worse than that, much worse than that. and you don't get much worse than election interference, especially we are talking presidential election of 2024, so this judge should change his ruling because palm beach county said he was totally wrong, and he was ruling based on them. ruled, didn't even have a chance to testify. i got a call last week, sir, we lost part of the case. i said the trial didn't even start. the trial starts i guess today. he ruled we lost a big part of the case because he's a democrat club politician. he's a democrat operative. and he's a disgrace to people that call themselves judges. and i hope my lawyers go in and i hope they fight him very hard because this guy is getting away with murder. and his clerk should not be allowed to be in his ear on every single question. you take a look at what's happening with her. she hates trump more than he does. so that's where it is. we have 80% of this trial has been won in june they

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sources familiar with that matter tell abc news that mark meadows has spoken to jack smith's team three times this year, including to the federal grand jury. abc news reports, quote, meadows informed smith's team that he repeatedly told trump in the weeks after the 2020 presidential election that the allegations of significant voter fraud commit to them were baseless. meadows also told the federal investigators trump was being, quote, dishonest with the public when he first claimed to have won the election only hours after polls closed on november 3rd, 2020, before a final result for. and obviously he didn't, when a source quoted meadows as telling smith's team in hindsight. jack smith's team was keenly interested in election related conversations mark meadows had with donald trump, according to abc news. conversations that could show donald trump knew he lost the election, while publicly spreading lies about voter fraud. abc news reports that after the supreme court denied his final court challenge, quote, trump told meadows something to the effect of, then that the end, or, so that's

telling abc news an australian billionaire who was friends with trump has told special counsel jack smith's team the former president shared potentially sensitive information about america's nuclear submarines while at mar-a-lago after donald trump left the white house. abc news learning that that billionaire then allegedly shared those nuclear secrets with dozens of others, including foreign officials and his own employees. jonathan karl reporting. >>> amid the chaos on capitol hill, the speaker of the house ousted for the first time in history, just a short time ago, former president trump now saying he would accept the role of speaker of the house for a short period. mary bruce standing by live tonight with a reality check here. >>> the horrific scene unfolding in ukraine. dozens of civilians killed in a russian missile strike, including a 6-year-old boy. >>> back in the u.s., the fedex plane crash-landing onto the runway while trying to land without landing gear. the images tonight, and the condition of the crew onboard. >>> a young woman at uva telling police of an attempted abduction.

mary, the news that jack smith is looking into whether giuliani was drunk in the post-election period, can you talk to me a little bit about does that surprise you, and what specifically could he be looking for? >> well, i think as you indicated in your intro, one of the things jack smith and his team are trying to prepare for is an advice of counsel defense, but they're also trying to understand the conspiracy more generally, right? and so what kind of representations were made both as counsel and also just as in other consultative capacities. and as you indicated certainly if mr. trump was well aware of mr. giuliani's intoxication, it would be pretty unreasonable to rely on his advice even if he was giving legal advice. and i will say that i think already an advice of counsel defense was pretty weak. obviously we haven't seen it yet but we can surmise because we know all the white house counsel, all the department of justice, like all the counsel around mr. trump who are sort of there being paid to be his lawyers as the president of the united states were telling him there was no fr

and then, what fani willis and jack smith flipping giuliani, get to trump. meadows and alyssa like, big development and trump's federal and state liability, today. >> call me a skeptic, but i watched her tearful, remorseful apology and i think there was a lot of commentary about either a smirk or something before she actually stood up. people wondered about that. i don't put a lot of weight into once nerves and the takes that come into a courthouse, of course. but walk down memory lane a bit to the epiphany and how to judge once upon a funny. here is jenna ellis, and how many instances she had to have the epiphany, sooner. watch this. >> this is an elite strikeforce team that is working on behalf of the president and the campaign to make sure that our constitution is protected. the facts matter, the truth matters, and if you are fair reporters, you will cover that fairly and appropriately. >> there have been a massive amount of irregularities, there have been ignorance and complete disregard for the law of the state of michigan. >> so, we remember that she s

kevin mccarthy surrendered the fight against, for example, jack smith.rds, the speaker lost his job because he refused to disrupt the prosecution of donald trump for attempting to overthrow american democracy. and for next speaker, the maga caucus has large demand. florida member -- i will vote for the speaker who publicly and clearly commit to defunding jack smith's anti-american election interference which hunt and subpoenas under biden of bringing a vote on the impeachment of joe biden to the house of the floor. we must have free and clear elections and in the corruption of our government. and the somewhat ominously, and a little comically, these are by terms. so let her be written, let it be done. those demands are broadly representative of the clark's position. there are demands. it leaves out another one that we should include, which is a requirement cut off aid to ukraine. she doesn't mention that but i think it's there. if you take them seriously, their positions basically amounted to declaring donald trump above the law by defunding special coun

♪ >>> news about donald trump, jack smith has won a major ruling.is has been an issue with trump. jack smith cited his attacks on the special counsel, as well as retired general milley. the judge noted the obvious -- no other criminal defendant would be allowed to launch those attacks, and he does not have the right to say just anything. it does not prevent him to criticize biding or the doj more broadly. the judge did not get into the consequences of future, any other defendant accused against the tun government, who then publicly sneer, well that had probably by incarcerated before trial, don't pass go, don't walk the streets. with all this in mind, good to see you, neal. >> i think this is pretty straightforward. nothing is really out of order nair. donald trump can't now threaten witnesses, you can't incite violence against court officials, but he can under the judge's rulings criticize the doj generally. hess can say the case is politically motivated, even though we know biden has been cut out of the entire prosecution part of this. donald trum

he can call jack smith things like a thug or deranged and the judge did not like that. so i think first of all there'll be an appeal and second i think that the part of the gag order that is most concerning, and i should emphasize that we haven't seen the final written order, and the words are going to be very important, her specific wording and the final written order, but going off what was said today, i think the concerning part is the inability to criticize the special council because the special council is exercising a lot of powers that the department of justice and there is arguably a political angle there. it relates to the attorney general, to the administration, it's on, i hit shakiest grounds there. elizabeth: so, legal experts say this may not survive on appeal. it's a first, fifth, and sixth amendment that, those rights belong to the defendant, not to the prosecutors. a gag order that stops the defendant from criticizing the government of public figure, it's less likely to survive in the appellant scrutiny and gag orders are heavily disfavored under first a

jack smith has reportedly spoken to mr. pratt.r do with mr. pratt? >> well, you know, the mar-a-lago case is still a pending case. there's a trial date in may. this case involves allegations that mr. trump and others mishandled classified documents and then he tried to conceal his mishandling of those documents by using his own employees at mar-a-lago. and part of, you know, this mishandling charge will be -- the case will be stronger if it shows how careless mr. trump was with national security information. so whether it is actually charged conduct, for example, telling mr. pratt some of our nation's secrets, things that are highly classified, whether it's about nuclear submarines or about our strike on qassam soleimani, the head of the iranian quds force, basically their terrorist wing, these are things that high likelihood these were highly classified and his willingness to tell people really for his own transactional business, personal interest, about them. it likesly will be admissible to show mr. trump's intent, his knowledg

what does it tell you about the scope of jack smith's probe? >> good to be with you. surprised that he spoke to 45-plus people. what a gossip? that's loose lips. as far as whether or not jack smith is going to seek an indictment for this, i'm not sure. because there's already been one superseding indictment. to go for another one could delay the ultimate trial in this case further and jack smith wants this thing to get going. but i think also the fact that this information, as the admiral said, is so important and sensitive, the doj may not want you to come out in court. this is not about a document. it's about a verbal communication. you would have to discuss it in open court. you have to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt, that's a violation of the espionage act, the dissemination part. trump has not been charged with dissemination. he's been charged with willful retention of documents. jack smith could charge it. but if he did so, i'm not sure the use is worth the squeeze. it would put perhaps some of our biggest secrets at risk in open court. i think they're going

is investigating, you're going to cooperate with jack smith. this is just the beginning of i think a continuing like term of service that she's going to have to provide to prosecutors in the united states at this point. >> she works for the government now. last question to you, barb. if i'm walt nauta in the whole other case, the classified documents case, hugo lowell tweeted he now is scheduled to decide whether he wants to waive hirights to conflict-free counsel and keep his trump pac financed lawyer who acknowledged for the first time he may be constrained at trial. walt nauta is the low-level employee who is charged with donald trump in the classified documents case. if you're walt nauta and starting to see people, it's a separate case from you, but big time people with money, pleading guilty to crimes related to donald trump, is that an incentive for you to maybe say, maybe i get off this trump train too? >> i think so. i think you see this happen all the time where you have got a united front of defendants who in a case have said we will

this has caught the attention of jack smith. rudy giuliani's drinking habits are now part of that investigation. something we should note that giuliani denied today. what does that have to do with ? th that's next. >>> tonight rudy giuliani is down yet another attorney, adding to his mt. everiest of legal and financial issues. the attorney representing him in georgia who you have seen on this program several times, defending giuliani is now the second attorney in just the last week to exit team rudy. this comes at a time, not really the best for giuliani as he is facing criminal charges and owes millions of dollars in legal fees to other lawyers who have previously represented him. what has been his focus today? not any of that. instead, he is pushing back on a report in the "new york times" that details giuliani's alleged alcohol issues and why jack smith is now said to be asking questions about it. >> i have an alcohol problem, i should be in the guinness book of world records. it is a typical "new york times" malicious lie. i

you almost in every circumstance want to do that, and i suspect jack smith said no.ust reading the tea leaves here but probably ms. smith required her to plead guilty to a felony, and that was something georgia prosecutors weren't insisting upon. now anything she says in georgia including on that videotape and in future proceedings, jack smith can of course introduce. so there's a way in which jack smith gets to have his cake and eat it, too, should he decide to go after her as i suspect that he will. so i think one thing to worry about is just kind of where powell's testimony will go. but another thing if you're trump that you're scared about is this now the start of a domino effect? we know in conspiracy cases and i wrote a whole journal article about it how one person starts to plead and everyone starts to follow. so trump has to worry not just about powell but everyone else. >> 17 people who may be willing to join the reality based community. thank you for joining me tonight. >>> when we come back, new reporting in the atlantic suggests hamas' brutal attack in so

tomorrow is a big day for democracy, a leaking, crooked and deranged prosecutor, jack smith, who has a terrible record of failure, is asking a highly partisan obama-appointed judge, chutkan, who should recuse herself based on the horrible things she has said to silence me through the use of a gag order, making it impossible for

a lot over the last two years, mark meadows has been granted immunity from the special counsel jack smith, in exchange for his testimony before a federal grand jury. abc report, quote, the source said meadows informed smith's team that he repeatedly told trump in the weeks after the 2020 presidential election that the allegations of significant voting fraud coming to them were baseless. nbc news has not independently confirmed this report. here is what the former lead investigator for the january 6th committee had to say about all of this. >> if it's true, it is the most significant evidential if element in the entire investigation, and there is really no one who was closer to the former president in the days between the election and his reluctant release of the white house than mark meadows. >> meadows lawyer says, he, quote, told abc their story was largely an accurate that there were also huge developments in the former presidents other cases today, both criminal and civil. my colleague laura jarrett has all put details on those. >> for weeks, attorney jenna ellis furiously defended th