so, for example, this is jake davis who i met face to face before -- while he was still part of the groupas arrested. online he was the leader of one of the cofounders and this witty, charismatic kingpin in the community. but face to face he was a scrawny young man. he was actually not particularly good at socializing and quite shy. of course, he's not like that anymore. this was a while ago. i also learned about a web site called forten, and you'll hear more about this from cole stryker, my colleague, who's really investigated this. and this is a web site which anonymous started on. it's been called -- well, i won't say the word, the armpit of the internet, because it hosts a lot of porn and graphic violence. but at the same time, it is also a place where people come to honestly cuts discuss their fears and their proclivities and inhibitions. one of my interviewees who i called william in the book, and he allowed me to take a picture of him by covering his face, went on for many years every day. this was like his life. and this was a place where he could honestly talk about things with p