and jake schmitt. the director of the international programme at the natural resources defense council, who joined us from lima, peru. i started by asking if he was encouraged or discouraged by the talks in lima. >> we came into the talks by a major announcement. and for countries to put money into a climate fund. we hoped the momentum would carry forward. and that it would put us in a solid path to get the agreement in paris. >> there seems to be a giant threat, but we failed to act. why is the progress so slow? >> there's a number of reasons the biggest one is we began in the mid-90s, the biggest economies need to step forward. we signed but didn't radify the protocol. we looked at china, india. there was a lot of time wasted now the u.s. and china laid down different but agreed upon targets. there's a new possibility. i'm not surprised there has not been progress. what the u.s. and china did is just a few weeks old. it's opened up a new path. what you are seeing here is negotiating a new landscape.