jonathan: james athney, slowly, nothing happened and then quickly all at once you start pricing in doom into a credit like general electric, is this a microcosm for bigger elsewhere? is the market and efficient -- market an efficient discounting mechanism? if you look at the likes of ge and toys "r" us, i would say no. james: i do not think it is specific in that sense at all. and the realities of the market is that secondary liquidity is pretty poor as a general rule, and relative liquidity is quite questionable, especially considering the size of the overall market. you get this water behind the dam effect. investors are reluctant to be preempted in selling out of certain names because they fear they cannot get back in, but there comes a point where that crack and you see that liquidity story play out with some really dramatic price moves. jonathan: what do you think about the triple b debate at the moment? there is this ticking time bomb and it is about to go off, it is about half of the investment grade universe, it is getting bigger. companies have loaded up on debt and there is le