that media outlet in the fall of 2016, gets portions of the steele dossier to james baker. r leaks around back to "mother jones" and yahoo! news. baker has been accused of leaking too. you know what i mean? it feels so circular, sol, what happened. >> it is circular, like i said. the clinton campaign, it was important to them to be able to say, wait a minute, the fbi is looking at this and you make an important point about james baker. is the fbi looking for plausible deniability here? you know, is it important for baker to be able to say, which is what the notes indicate, the contemporaneous notes to be able to say i asked whether or not, whether or not they represented anybody, whether sussman represented anybody with respect to this alfa bank report? and he said no. so was baker being a careful public servant or was he looking for plausible deniability? but there is another question, there are so many questions here be liz, what, why does a guy like sussman, what makes him able to just walz into the office of the general counsel of the fbi say i have information for you?

he goes to the fbi james baker, oh i have this interesting information that donald trump

law library and the other most important larry the last 50 years was our special guest secretary james baker. so secretary baker we're delighted you're here. nobody epitomizes the concept of the lawyer leader more than you to refresh people's memories secretary baker was a leader of his law firm for almost 20 years in houston, the andrews and kurth firm. they went to washington became number two at the department of commerce and ultimately and essentially led the department of commerce. he was the leader of five different presidential campaigns during the reagan's first term. he was the leader of the white house staff as the white house chief of staff during his second term. he was the leader of the treasury department as the secretary of the treasury and course during george h.w. bush's presence that he was the leader of the state department of secretary of state. in the year 2000 he became the leader of george w. bush's legal team that prevailed in the landmark case of bush versus gore. so we simply could not have a better lawyer leader to be part of this program then secretary baker so se

remember james baker said shake on it? they never did anything more than shake on it. baker was a lawyer, and baker knew if you didn't write it down, it didn't exist. and the situation began to change and it became clear that they were going to have less leverage, the soviets than they had before. their economy was declining. there was chaos in their own political system, and it became very clear, yeah, we could get eastern germany into nato, it's a unifies country, and we're going to hold open the door for everybody to expand in the future. perhaps through nato, to expand so everybody can come, this common european home. as long as it has nato. the treaty was never written down, never codified, which meant the bush administration was never held to it legally, more importantly, subsequent administrations were never held to it in any way, shape or form, the clinton administration, the george w. bush administration did both push and eagerly accept nato expansion. the one thing the soviets had been told they would not have to suffer through. the one thing that they were to

remember james baker said shake on it? they never did anything more than shake on it. aker was a lawyer. baker knew, if you did not write it down it did not exist. and the situation began to change. it became clear that they were going to have less leverage, the soviets, than they had before. their economy was declining. there was chaos in their own political system. and it became very clear that, we can get eastern germany into nato. that makes a lot of sense. it seems logical, it's a unified country. and we will hold open the door for everybody to expand in the future perhaps through nato. so that everybody can come. this common european home. we do not mind that idea as long as it has nato which allows us to be there as well. the treaty was never written down. it was never codified. that meant the bush administration was never held to it legally. but more importantly, subsequent administrations were never held to it in any way, shape or form. and as we know, subsequent administrations, the clinton administration, the george w. bush administration, did both bush and e

this is all premised of notes from another lawyer that james baker allegedly spoke to.s indictment is super interesting and it harkens back to what we know about the steel dossier and about the pack of lies that the clinton team told the world, told journalists, told, you know, law enforcement aboutt the steel dossier. they denied they were behind that and all of these allegations about russia conclusion and in fact funded it with fusion gps, this law firm funded it and in this case they denied they had anything to do with this allegation about the alpha bank when, in fact, this indictment shows like every single time that they had a meeting about this with the fbi with these tech executives and so forth, they billed for it. so the billing records are actually the paper trail. but you see some remarks in this indictment, and i encourage your viewers to read it, that show that people involved in this conspiracy, and it was a multi factor conspiracy involving tech executives who wanted to get a job with the clinton white house, his companies and others that they were afra

remember, james baker said shake on it. they never did anything more than shake on it. ker knew if he didn't write it down, it didn't exist. and the situation began to change and became clear they were going to have less leverage, the soviets, than they did before. economy was declining and became clear that, we can get eastern germany into nato. and we're going to hold open the door for everybody to expand in the future, perhaps through nato, so they can come to this common european home. as long as it has nato, which allos us to be there too. the treaty was never written down, never codified, which meant the bush administration was never held to it legally. and subsequent administrations, the clinton administration, did both push and eagerly accept nato expansion. one thing the soviets have been told they would not have to suffer through. the one thing they were told was going to be a symbol of their not being excluded from europe as they have in the past. in fact, in one critical moment, mikale gorbachev said we'd like to join nato too. we're still in the height of th

so that's james baker's take on that subject.estion. >> [ inaudible question ] -- about 30 years. my question is this, you haven't addressed the media yet, changes in the media over the years. the other question is you know the bushes, is jeb bush going to run? >> i tell you what, i'm going to split that question up into two parts, i'm going to let jonathan deal with the media question because he's media and i will let chase question in on whether jeb bush is going to run. >> we talk a lot about how the media is so much tougher on presidents today than the media was back in the days and this is often cited in terms of their private lives or sex scandals and that sort of stuff. i think that is true. but if you actually spend a lot of time looking at the way that the press wrote about lyndon johnson in the 1960s, they weren't exactly easy on him. johnson felt and with a lot of good reason that this sort of eastern ivy league influenced press corps looked down on him as a crass, you know, in their eyes texan. no offense to any of th

james baker the former fbi lawyer is said to have told investigators that he recalled sussmann telling him that he was not meeting him to convey this information on behalf of any client, but in a deposition before, congress in 2017, sussmann testified that he did seek that fbi meeting on behalf of a client, an unnamed client who was a cyber security expert who had helped analyze the data. so like i said, this is a weird development in the story that has been weird from the beginning. according to what "the new york times" is reporting tonight, what john durham, this trump-appointed, right, bill barr-appointed special counsel, what he is preparing to do is charge this cybersecurity lawyer, michael sussmann, with having told someone at the fbi that he was not representing a client when, in fact, he was representing a client. he conveyed this information, this suspicion information to the fbi. hey, this has national security concerns. hey, this is about to be in the press. the fbi ought to look into this. here is the data that we think is basically what "the new york times" has, that repo

don't you think james baker would have said, really? this is not coming from the campaign?zen giving us this information? that you came across? it didn't come from the clinton campaign? it warranted follow up questions by the fbi that they never asked, liz. elizabeth: right. >> it is unbelievable. >> because he was friends with sussman by the way. this alfa bank story, it was really about trump hotel marketing, right? marketing emails about his hotels and golf clubs. this executive reportedly later said he was offered a top security job in the clinton administration. they were building dossiers on trump campaign officials, michael flynn, george manafort, carter page. using none public internet data traffic to of those individual i.p. addresses. they are mining data, researchers out of universities funded with federal grants. they had security clearances in the intelligence community. these researches saying, this feels quote, bogus. all we got to go on, they hate trump. and they were told just give enough to provide the base of a very useful narrative. you don't have to loo

. >> what did you think james baker knew michael susman? >> i can't speak to whom james baker knew. >> do you think it's credible that james bacon, andrew mccabe, peter struck, lisa page, these individuals had no idea who michael suszman was and who his clients might be? >> i certainly understand why you're asking the question but if i could just finish. given this isongoing criminal case being brought by the special counsel with whom we're actively cooperating -- >> that's fine. i won't get an answer. let me make the final point here. either the fbi was completely clueless or corrupt that they didn't check into whether michael sussman might have been working for the hillary clinton campaign before they opened the investigation to leak to the press which put this nation through three, four years of political turmoil. there needs to be a political accountability. i hope john durham has a whole lot more he's going to be revealing because i got virtually nothing out of you based on subpoenas. interesting listening to your exchange with senator

>> obviously that's an important role for any white house chief of staff, james baker made his bonesronald reagan's chief of staff in the beginning of the 1980s. he wasn't the person he is at this time, he had to prove himself both of the republican party, he had to prove himself as the master operator he would turn out to be. i think you're right. it's important to have somebody at your side if you're president who's able to tell you the pitfalls, the trap doors. jim baker at this point in life would support president biden on the withdrawal from afghanistan. i think he would have been more cautious about the way it was handled. probably would have been more, attune to the potential problems that could be associated with a rapid withdrawal of troops in terms of americans left behind, afghan allies left behind. he wouldn't be somebody who would be approving of, you know, the kind of messy, you know, chaotic situation we've seen in the last week, but he was for the underlying policy. i think you're right, the most important thing is to have somebody at your side who's able to guide yo

b, i general counsel james baker. now, in that meeting, susman told baker that he had suspicions about an alleged secret communications between the trump campaign and russia. those suspicions later found out to be entirely false. now what the indictment does read in quote, during the meeting, sussman lied about the capacity in which he was providing the allegations to the f b. i specifically sussman stated falsely that he was not doing his work on the after mentioned allegations for any client which led the f. b. i general counsel to understand that sussman was acting as a good citizen. but in fact, sussman acted on behalf of specific clients, namely a u. s. technology industry, executive, a u. s. internet company and the hillary clinton presidential campaign. now the indictment says that the lie was material because it misled the f. b. i about the political nature of sussman work. now, while the special council on the f, b i r r a board with assessments, indictment, you do have his lawyers that deny any wrong doing.

i general counsel james baker. now, in that meeting, susman told baker that he had suspicions about an alleged secret communications between the trump campaign and russia. those suspicions later found out to be entirely false. sussman lied about the capacity in which he was providing the allegations to the f. b. i susman stated falsely that he was not doing his work on the aforementioned allegations for any client which led the f. b. i general counsel to understand that sussman was acting as a good citizen, merely passing along information, not as a paid advocate or political operative, but in fact, sussman acted on behalf of specific clients, namely a u. s. technology industry executive, a u. s. internet company and the hillary clinton presidential campaign. now the indictment says that the ally was material because it misled the f. b. i about the political nature of sussman work. now while the special council and the f b, i are your on board with assessments, indictment. you do have his lawyers that deny any wron

i general counsel james baker. now, in that meeting, susman told baker that he had suspicions about an alleged secret communications between the trump campaign and russia. those suspicions later found out to be entirely false. now the indictment says that the lie was material because it misled the f. b. i about the political nature of sussman work. now, while the special council on the f b i r r a board with assessments, indictment, you do have his lawyers that deny any wrong doing. mr. susan has committed no crime that the prosecution here would be baseless, unprecedented, and an unwarranted deviation from the a political and principled way in which the department of justice is supposed to do its work. very confident that if mister susan is charged, he will prevail at trial and vindicate his good name. now, a very interesting note here you did have the now president joe biden justice department. they actually allowed this indictment to go through. it was sussman lawyers that actually tried to stop it through attor

even the most senior officials were former fbi agent and then mark basically going all the way to james baker at the fbi and leaking information like just wanted to let you know it looks like the trump server is communicating if you get my drift, you might want to investigate and we have seen this all over and over and over again, huge disinformation. dan: they knew it was fake, it says they knew it was a red herring, they knew it and hillary plotted to the fbi anyway. quick thoughts on back? >> i believe they knew it because they were part of actually doing it, they allegedly had information knowing this was fake, the put out there and connected everybody, it was a disinformation campaign from the beginning with christopher steele and was taught it in the dossier and they pushed them out and it was a lie against the immigrant people and it still is the only person i can be the only entity holding these people accountable for what they did to our constitution and what they did to the american people is the department of justice i'm grateful john term did something. dan: appreciate your time,

james a baker, at the height of his power, walking the corridors in washington, could any known figuree ability to turn away a donald trump, knowing the downstream effect it would have on the party he loved so much? >> you know, i think a lot of people have asked the question, is it even possible to have a jim baker in the context of our dysfunctional politics today, especially in a republican party that has turned so far in a different direction, maybe an almost unrecognizable direction, to those like baker, who built it up in the 19 eighties and 19 nineties. to me, the question of donald trump, and does this republican party bear any resemblance to it? it's a cult of personality that trump has built over the past few years, that the republicans have gone along with. after january 6th, that was a dividing line, and it's hard to see that you could have any figure come in and after that -- after the first term of donald trump being what it was. let's say he runs again. can you imagine a second trump presidency? the idea that any kind of a figure, like a jim baker, in the white house, it

owe peter baker promotion, i will say that the support both he and his wife wrote, biography of james baker is available on paperback. we are much obliged to our starting line, thank you friend for starting off our conversation this wednesday night. coming up for us more on the lessons for both parties after gavin newsom easily survives in california, and later. after spending nearly two years battling the virus on behalf of others. one of our favorite physicians around here. is blaming the vaccine of others for the fact that he's got the virus now. he will in fact join us from quarantine tonight. all of it as the 11th hour is just getting underway, on this wednesday evening, with the flags of the foot of the washington monument, marking those souls we have lost to this pandemic. pandemic. pandemic. it protects the 8 areas dentists check for a healthier mouth. the #1 toothpaste brand in america. crest. you know how some carriers give you so little for your old or busted phone, you just end up living with it? i don't think so. verizon lets you trade in your broken phone for a shiny new one.

shortly thereafter the fbi opens an investigation into this, general counsel james baker talked to the fbi said, listen, this guy sussman is not working for any client. they knew he was a lawyer for the dnc. not like michael sussman was a complete stranger from another world but they said that he was not working for a client when in fact he was working for clinton campaign and actually billed the meeting with baker to the campaign. elizabeth: that's right. the university researchers saying we'll do a stretch here. we'll have to stretch this. we'll expose every trick in our bag to make a very weak connection between trump and alfa bank. now msnbc anchors went with this. cnn anchors went with this. cnn dialed it back. the thing is that the, hillary clinton made like this was an independent probe, right, when she, her campaign paid for it. now nsa sullivan also, he back then made statements like this was a done deal, a gotcha moment. he was senior advisor to the hillary clinton campaign. the country was dragged through this for three years. we have some silicon valley internet guy or gal

your point, jeffrey, what strikes me so much is that trump and his allies have been talking about james bakeri, which is not founded in any fact at all, but that was their theory. now durham's entire case rests on jim baker being truthful. right? if jim baker's recollection actually falls apart on this or wasn't as sound as durham points it to be, then the whole case, to me, falls apart. >> 100%. >> jeffrey, on the bigger picture, address the bigger picture which is again you heard the people on fox talking about this blowing up everything. i mean, what were the deliverables here compared to what was alleged or promised? >> right. it's important to remember that's right. that's right, berman. the idea that the former president and his allies have been pushing is that there was something corrupt about the russian investigation from the beginning that there never was legitimate investigation about whether the former president and his campaign were in cahoots with russia during the 2016 campaign. what robert mueller found as people may recall was that there were extensive contacts between russia

i will say that the superb book he and his wife wrote "the biography of james baker" is out and available in paperback. we are much obliged to our starting line tonight. thank you for starting off our conversation this wednesday night. coming up for us, more on the lessons for both parties as gavin newsom easily survives in california. >>> and later after spending nearly two years battling the virus on behalf of others, one of our favorite physicians around here is blaming the vaccine refusal of others for the fact he's got the virus now. he will, in fact, join us from quarantine tonight. all of it as "the 11th hour" is just getting underway on this wednesday evening with the flags at the foot of the washington monument, marking the souls we have lost to this pandemic. to j.d. power. number one in reliability, 16 times in a row. most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row. proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. that's why we're building 5g right, that's why there's only one best network. oh my, with chase freedom unlimited, i earn all this cash back? oh, i go

who was indicted on charges of lying at a september, 2016, meeting with then-fbi general counsel james baker. you were at fbi at the time. i mean, are these charges concerning to you? >> well, i -- i should say, i don't know michael sussman. i don't believe i've ever even met him. i was aware of the information that came -- i was aware at the time that information had come to the fbi about these -- these allegations of connection to alpha bank to possibly the trump organization. so that is what it is. i don't think that is the subject of this indictment, though. what concerns me about this indictment is many, many people bring information to the fbi every single day. right? and oftentimes, that information is inaccurate or maybe it's not productive. and sometimes, it comes to us, you know, for some ulterior motive. you know, people calling the tip line. maybe, they are angry with their neighbor so they send in some information to make -- make others look bad or to try to initiate investigations. that's not good when it happens but it happens a lot and i've never seen someone indicted under c

his book on james baker is the man who ran washington now out in paper back.s and former adviser to house speakers john boehner and paul ryan. let's talk about the first call to the chinese counterpart, it was on october 30th because the china thought according to intelligence was preparing to attack and he wanted to reassure him. we had deployed nimitz to the south china seas and the rhetoric from president trump at the u.n. general assembly meeting from the white house had been that we have to hold china accountable and it was, you know, a constant bashing against china because of the coronavirus and the way the president was using that. so that is the context. after january 6, milley calls general lee again and they write this the book li remained unusually rattled putting the two nations on the knife-edge of disaster. so that is the context and now we have the statement from milg milley's spokesman saying he was so concerned about china misreading us that he did call china and russia and a number of other -- maybe 20 other countries i was told. he is now u

context that this lawyer, michael sussman that represented the dnc, went to see his old front, james bakerhim about the potential that russia and the trump campaign were communicating through alpha bank. i think there's one interesting thing, martha, christopher steele, the source of the dossier, is being sued in england for libel by the head hoff the people that run alpha bank for things that he put in the dossier about alpha bank. steele testified in the british proceeding that it was sussman that gave him the information about alpha bank that he pressed on the fbi. >> martha: that is interesting. there's a frustration on the part of those that watch this things get hammered around for two years and lead to nothing. after billions spent on this investigation and really dogs the trump administration for the first half if not more of the administration. they have seen one fairly attorney, kevin klinesmith that was charged for changing the words about carter page, if he was an asset or not and this guy. people go that's it? you think this is a big deal? >> yeah, i don't think so though. i t

at the request of special counsel john durham sussmann met with fbi general counsel james baker on september 19th, 2016. in that conversation. >> donald trump. >> linked then candidate donald trump to russia but failed to properly mention his ties to both the dnc and clinton campaign. >> sussmann claimed not to be representing anyone at the time. just looking to pass the information along. sussmann, in other testimony before congress, claimed that he was representing at the time a cybersecurity client who he did not identify. >> sussmann's attorneys in a statement to fox news wrote in part mr. sussmann has committed no crime. any prosecution here would be baseless, unprecedented, and unwarranted deviation from the apolitical and principled way in which the department of justice is supposed to do its work. when the dnc servers were hacked in 2016, sussmann was called in for help. last september, then director of national intelligence john ratcliffe released documents alleging democratic candidate hillary clinton was behind an effort to tie donald trump to the russian hacking of those servers.

james: i wouldn't like to go. i'm not a baker. i'm a businessman. xpected you to come here today and know how to make something. james: you're getting frustrated. lemonis: oh, i'm way past frustrated. james: why is that? lemonis: because you talk a lot, but then you don't show up with anything. i'm marcus lemonis, and i risk my own money to help businesses. i love investing in american businesses. woman: i just don't want anything to really change. lemonis: it's not always easy, but i do it to create jobs, and i do it to make money. do we have a deal? let's rock and roll. man: yeah! lemonis: this is "the profit." [ up-tempo music plays ] james: i'm james with james' gourmet pies, and we make the world's best gourmet sweet potato pie, and we want to serve it to the world. i started james' gourmet pies in 2017. these sweet potato pies are inspired by my grandma, and we used to sell them at churches, farmers' markets, and we grew from there. the minis are only two for $5. thank you. appreciate you. lemonis: while james sells his pies at local farmers' m

. >> what did you think james baker knew michael susman? >> i can't speak to whom james baker knew. >> do you think it's credible that james bacon, andrew mccabe, peter struck, lisa page, these individuals had no idea who michael suszman was and who his clients might be? >> i certainly understand why you're asking the question but if i could just finish. given this isongoing criminal case being brought by the special counsel with whom we're actively cooperating -- >> that's fine. i won't get an answer. let me make the final point here. either the fbi was completely clueless or corrupt that they didn't check into whether michael sussman might have been working for the hillary clinton campaign before they opened the investigation to leak to the press which put this nation through three, four years of political turmoil. there needs to be a political accountability. i hope john durham has a whole lot more he's going to be revealing because i got virtually nothing out of you based on subpoenas. interesting listening to your exchange with senator

but remember, it was james baker's comments about the weakening of the dollar that precip anticipatedinute, you're way too young for that. how the heck could you remember that? >> you have to be a student of history to be a student of the markets, neil. [laughter] neil: you're right. >> i think in that rarefied air of this time it's different when it comes to valuations or various high-tech, this time is not different, and we can learn something from those years gone by. neil: yeah. there's great wisdom to your young years. let me ask you though, jonathan, about this view that technology is in a world of its own, because the nasdaq keeps hitting records even in the same environment what's going on there? >> yeah. neil, it's pretty surprising. i mean, we saw a switch out of a lot of those high-tech names into small caps, into industrials, into even real estate and pharmaceuticals, but big tech is, in effect, back. a huge move up in tesla today. apple, all-time highs. you know, these are the safe bets, if you will, the microsofts, the oracles, the sun microsystems of their day. they're

s general counsel james baker. at that meeting he provided information and data files that allegedly contained evidence of a secret communication between the trump organization and the russian bank alpha bank. the evidence, however, was fabricated. the allegations about the trump organization being linked with a russian bank, these were false. the e-mail server at issue was neither owned nor operated by the trump organization. but the lie in the indictment occurred when sussmann allegedly told the f.b.i. general counsel that he wasn't providing the information on any client's behalf. he repeated the same to another government agency. those assertions were apparently false. he was working for the hillary clinton presidential campaign. now, interestingly, the indictment states that although baker was allegedly unaware of the political affiliation of the information starting in april 2016, sussmann represented the democratic national committee and regularly met with the f.b.i. according to the indictment, the f.b.i. f

james baker, former secretary of state. former secretary of the treasury.use chief of staff during the reagan administration. who has seen more than a share of things. he looked out the window of his office and looked out in disbelief at the small saw smoke billowing out from the pentagon, not releasing of course, that i had been the target of a direct hit by a hijacked airliner. and on board that airline, barbara alston, a well-known washington lawyer. this is the scene in new york tonight. this is a city that is still hurting very deeply. the new york city firefighters union says tonight, these are unconfirmed numbers -- but from the firefighters union. that it has lost and the city has lost 200 of its finest. 200 firemen killed today in the world trade center attack. the buildings came down, of course. many of those firemen were at the base of those buildings, involved in firefighting and rescue efforts at the time. that's the first number that we had from a reliable source. he comes from the firefighters union tonight. earlier, mayor giuliani would only

at sentencing, betty winick brought to court the namesake randy baker never got to meet. >> this is randall jameshters, and her husband, but it's hard, she said, missing her dad. >> this situation has made me feel like i'm not in control of anything in my life. and the one person who made me feel like i could be in control of it was him, and i can't call him to see if i'm handling the right way or -- >> although, i must tell you, as you're sitting here talking, you've been calling on him again and again. >> i like to think that. >> and in the end, for all her smiles and boundless good manners, randy baker's daughter is just as tough as he was, maybe tougher. maybe she just doesn't know it yet. >> that's all for this edition of "dateline. " i'm natalie morales. thank you for watching. >> first up on msnbc, the battle over the president's new vaccine mandates escalating right now. republican governors vowing to fight back, including one whose state just hit a new high in covid related deaths. >> we have a responsibility to fight back. and that's what we're going to do in florida. >> this is not abo

james: week two in the nfl. disblrks derek carr, 435 yards passing. two touchdowns against the ravens in two games against the steelers. 623 yards and six t.d.'s. >> there's baker

james baker, iii, a former secretary of state and treasury secretary, they had a commission to look at things like voter i.d. and they actually recommended that voter i.d. would be one way to instill public confidence in the integrity of the vote. you've got to show your i.d. when you go through the transportation security administration, t.s.a., to get on an airplane. you've got to show an i.d. if you're going to buy a pack of cigarettes at a convenience store or six-pack of beer. i mean, we are accustomed for people to be able to identify who they are. if you want to get into a federal building, you have to show an i.d. so the idea that we should prohibit voter i.d., to me, is ridiculous. and that's one of the provisions in the democrat substitute bill which is before us. it would prohibit the use of voter i.d. through mail-in ballots. but that's just the beginning. one of the most outlandish, or i should say on top of what i already talked about, provisions in this bill is the use of taxpayer funds for campaigns. well, a lot of companies have matching programs for charitable givi