even mention letitia james as other winds, getting trump university taken down and the chair his family was operating. i want to talk about this felony conviction. because it is maddening cnn did a story on a bunch of them, people who have been convicted of felonies on the box, you are a felon if they'd try to apply for a gun or a business license, in many cases, they are denied opportunity because of a felony conviction. yet, donald trump as i understand it, i've asked every legal person i can at msnbc, gets to evade the term felon being applied to him because he has not been sentenced yet. please explain how that could be when it does not feel like that's true for anyone else, and what are the likelihoods he will end up being sentenced in this case in the 34 felony charge case? >> let's talk about why he is able to evade that. because as both a former president and one that is about to be president again, donald trump has been able to avoid that act of sentencing. and that is the moment in time, joy, when someone goes from being convicted of particular charges by a jury of their peers to actually having a judgment of conviction entered against them. that is the point