that was the main connection for james ziegler. c-span: he came out of the senate? >> guest: he is a boyhood friend of trent lott and then, you know, the only law enforcement experience james ziegler ever had was as ceremonial sergeant of arms for the senate. he essentially guarded the senate gavel and this has been incredibly demoralizing to all of the rank and file border patrol agents, immigration inspectors, detention and deportation agents whose job it is to enforce a law to have a chief who admitted in his confirmation hearings that he knew nothing about immigration law. but it's not only that. the worst problem is of course is he has long been known as an open borders advocate, and after september 11th, he went down to the u.s. and mexico border, and i talk about this scene in my book, went down to the border. he was in arizona and he basically announced out loud and in public that he didn't think it was "either reasonable or practical to enforce our immigration laws and deport people who were here in violation of our laws." can you imagine if any other head