plus after paying $20 billion in fines jp morgan chase has given a huge raise to ceo jamie dimon. later in the federal reserve there is a new documentary that chronicled the fed during the financial crisis, and this was an intriguing day at the economic forum with ali velshi. i'm david shuster, and this is "real money." >> this is "real money," and you are the most important part of the show. join our live conversation for the next half hour on twitter @aj real money. this has not been a very good day for all of how have money invested in the stock market. for the second day in a row stocks took a big dive, the dow dropped 318 points and the trading loss of 2%. that capped off the weekly decline that they have seen in more than a year. the tech heavy nasdaq fell 2.95%. investors appear to be spooked about what is known as the emerging markets, the rapidly developing countries of brazil, russia and china. those economies are showing signs of slowing down. the market reaction began on thursday following reports of a contraction in china's manufacturing output. that report combined w

warren buffett coming hyped jamie dimon 100% in support of what he is doing at jpmorgan chase. jamie and the bank. >>> what effect will debt ceiling have on banks in this country? liz claman had a chance to sit down with bank of america ceo and president brian moynihan what hopes washington will do with the upcoming debt debate. take a look. >> i hope they work through, they have a budget deal which is unusual. the debt ceiling goes on context not having a budget deal. it actually started, when i talk to our clients around the world, but especially u.s., started in '11 and thing got started and downgrade. people got concerned because maybe they didn't understand something because at that time europe was pretty confusing. u.s. got confusing. asia got cons fusing and china particular. people sort of backed up. when you go to the u.s. and west coast and southwest you hear that is all understood now. you would say why would a million size company be that interested? they sell through the whole world. maybe it is different than a decade or two ago they might have sold to the u.s. th

we do have more of that interview with jamie dimon.ked to him about the jobs picture and what he thinks the difference will be between janet yellen and ben bernanke when it comes to the taper. take a listen. >> i don't know. i have enormous respect for her as does every single person i meet. >> did you meet her before? >> yes. >> she'll have to pave her own way. i think the tapering thing is a good thing. i saw a headline the other day and someone said tapering, strong economy bad because it means we'll start tapering. i thought the purpose of it was a strong economy. i think if we have a strong economy, it makes it easier to taper. normalization of interest rates and fed policy is a good thing. i don't think you'll see the fed completely do tough tightening things or dramatic tightening if the economy starts to weaken. it's always predicated upon as long as we start having jobs at 200,000 a month, you might have a tapering thing, which is a good thing. we talk about having 4% growth, you won't care if we're buying extra 2 billion to 4

i don't think jamie dimon will be doing much public talking. did he speak in davos?e no idea but he won't be out there that much but clearly you won't see him talking like he used to talk in the past about regulatory issues at least for a while. he will back off of that but clearly this is the statement from jpmorgan board of directors that our guy is better than the way you are mischaracterizing him, mr. obama -- cheryl: for any of these banks and financials one of the top sectors of last year and jpmorgan had an amazing -- can't argue with the chart. >> they will say this, regulators and bureaucrats and president obama and eric holder may not like us but guess what, shareholders like us and our employees like working here. there are worse places in the world to work and jpmorgan chase. cheryl: 401(k) looks a lot better because likely whether they knew it or not had financial stocks and that is -- >> if jamie dimon left jpmorgan tomorrow that stock is going to $30 a share. just telling everybody. nobody else could run this complicated -- another story about whether

jamie dimon said essentially the same thing last week, he said he was optimistic about the u.s. economy. the ceo of wells fargo said the same thing as well and they don't have to. they're cautious, they'll be cautious. i think that's a good sign. speaking of the financials the big theme of 2014 health care and financials have shown real improvement. you see the bank index, the bkx, big bank stocks, bkx is at a five-year high and you know that's good. we've had a number of the bank earnings pretty good on where the trends are right here. stronger capital liquidity. lower credit costs, lower expenses. net margin income not great but okay. the lower expenses that's a real big thing. did you see citigroup this morning operating expenses dropped 5.9%.

let's go back to the jamie dimon story. despite being at a party and paying for champagne, he has kept a fairly low profile. no headlines generated from his appearance. trust is a big topic. mike mentioned $20 million in fines and settlements that he paid. what does he need to do to regain trust? he obviously has investor trust. >> they are they put this behind them. that is the key thing. have they paid all of the fines? are they out of the trouble? >> they always have more fines. >> more problems coming, more investigations. i will be tough. if they have put this behind them, then there's a strategy. they have to reboot and move beyond. that is what they're hoping. >> they may put it behind them as far as regulators, but what about the general public? isn't this a broader issue for members of congress? americans do not see themselves getting a raise. they have to be outraged by something like this. you see a naked populism up there. all over incomes. >> there's populism and the republican party as well. that will be an im

they can cook the books but they're so good at they've been proven to cook the books and there's jamie dimon cooking the books he's a celebrity crook you know a guest on network some cooking show and there is he's a celebrity cook you know and then let's all celebrate the fact that people like the royal mail flow absolutely hammered people with a horrible deal they sold the jewel they that income those shares are now in the pension accounts of germany the german people are getting the income from the royal mail all european states states around the world that have a functioning welfare state like germany and others they want those shares because they want. the income from mr and mrs joe bag a blogger here in britain putting their little postage stamps on. packages putting it into the big red box they gave him ten ten p. of every transaction goes to some you know german friends living the good life on your artwork sucker first well let's roll back the tape and look at that german war ship that was coming down here they were probably investigating their little investment in the royal mile now

when reporters asked jamie dimon on a conference of $20 billion in legal settlements in 2013.asked jamie dimon on a conference call later on whether jpmorgan will be done with the legal headaches this year, he declined to comment and said he would to take a rain check on that. no clarity from on the upcoming legal settlement. what we learned from the earnings report and a fourth quarter is credit trends continue to improve at jpmorgan, though trading revenue and equities did miss the mark in the fourth quarter. commodities trading revenue was higher than anticipated, even as it drop seven percent from the third quarter. investment banking fees were higher than anticipated thanks ipos andrease in dealmaking. compensation is a big area of concern for a lot of people because of expenses and the need to maintain expense control at the big ask. jpmorgan set aside $70 for pay and compensation. that is about 30% of revenue, the same as it was last year. in terms of headcount, the cfo at jpmorgan says he sees a little way to go. >> the earnings call, jamie dimon addressed -- he said t

warded in jamie dimon is the poster child for this wash of goldman sachs a bay the law why should h.s.b.c. obey the law when here's a guy jamie diamond who's broken the law and numerable times and they give a big fat twenty million dollar payday to be a celebrity crook there's no incentive to obey the law if you're below the line if you're living on a council flat and you're starving and you need to steal it don't it to keep another day afloat on this planet then you're going to jail well i like the idea of a celebrity crush and it could be you know celebrity cook t.v. show because people like reality t.v. shows and that's the only way most people ever learn their information or know information about the culture and society around them so that celebrity cooks except a celebrity cooks everyone like the celebrity cooking shows this is a celebrity cook show so instead of cooking let's say brownies for some celebrities jamie diamond and kate b.m.j. are or delayed in twos or ernst and young or the other one they can cook the books but they're so good at they've been proven to cook the books a

jamie dimon, the ceo of j.p.n chase, wants nothing more than to get this out of the headlines and not even have a less -- not even have us talking about it. >> they have so many other things to worry about. the bank will have at a minimum seven or eight department of justice investigations, many which are criminal. it still has a whole host of issues and headaches hanging over the company, but investors keep shrugging it off as no big deal. as we saw over this last year, they are paying billions and billions of dollars to settle these missteps, and at what point do investors say, ok, enough is enough? they still seem to have confidence in jamie dimon. >> hans, i will ask the question there distressed debt opportunities anywhere around this? >> i would say no. tebow that was an answer. ok. so that is at least one take. as far as the wall street community, do you have an opinion, do you not have an opinion? >> i suppose my opinion -- i can certainly understand why jamie diamond would want to get these headlines beh

. >> jamie dimon, the chief executive of jpmorgan, is going to get paid more, reportedly paid more orhatever it is, -- where there is smoke there is fire. pre-k's ok. how is it possible that when you are not risking your own capital, i understand you are risking a lot of other people's capital, but if you're not risking your own capital on a daily basis, how come you get compensated at a level that implies that you are risking everything that you have worked for? >> wow. >> you like that at 8:00 something in the morning. >> this is a very interesting topic obviously. the first point is that if you were to sort of poll ceo's and hedge fund guys and private equity guys around town, you would they do the blue risk their own capital, you know, the bill ackman, the dan loebs of they are, carl icahns, the ones getting paid, you know, 500 million dollars a year, $1 billion a year. right, so jamie dimon, who got paid what, $13 million last year -- >> $11.5 million. >> ok, a down year for him. this year it will we closer to something like that, we all scratch our heads as to why if you are pay

jamie dimon. for more we go to nbc an four grader trick-or-treating rachel maddow. >> the nearest and deerest to jayie dimon this holiday see be, recently graced with this panoramic holiday card in your mail box. it shows the first family of finance having a great time hitting tennis balls inside what seems to be their home. and says hey, we're so rich we can destroy our own stuff with a smile. >> stephen: disgusting. calf or thing around your own home with your own family? at christmastime. come on. i condition think of anything more decadent except maybe murdering a tree and dressing it up like a whore. no wonder, nond withouter, folks, no wonder "time" magazine called the cards maddeningly tone deaf and ask could you pick a more elitist sport? yes, elitist, ten sis just polo without a horse that can be played in a public park. jamie die upon forgot the golden rule of 1 percenters, the 99ers need to previous your money has made you miserable. his christmas card should have been him weeping alone

jpmorgan has paid billions in fines, so can chairman and ceo jamie dimon now rest easy, take a break?e the fines a hedge against something much, much worse happening to the bank? guess who's back? we missed him, charlie gasparino. >>> and also amazon ceo's hopes of a new year's peaceful vacation in one of the most isolated destinations were shattered by an unexpected health scare. we're going to tell you what happened when we come back. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] e new new york is open. open to innovation. open to ambition. open to ldids. that's why n york has a new plan -- dozens of tax freeones all across the state. move here, pand here, or start a new business here and pay no taxes for ten years... we're new york. if there's something that creates more jobs, and ows more sinesses... we're open to it. start a tax-free business at startup-ny.com. for the proven relief raof the purple pill. and that relief could be in your hand. for many, nexi helps relieve heartburn symptoms from arefluxisease. find out how you can save at purplepill.com. there is risk of bone fracture and low magnesium

and citi group not to mention jamie dimon and lloyd blankfein the c.e.o. of j.p. morgan and goldman sachs if these are the people trying to tackle global equality we might as well have justin bieber leave the mothers against drunk driving convention but for how. most disturbing is a poll taken by prince waterhouse coopers among thirteen hundred or so business leaders at the forum when asked about their top economic concerns seventy two percent of executives said over regulation of corporations no i didn't say that wrong over regulation because we all know that the two thousand and eight financial crisis was kicked off by too many government officials preventing banks from unloading toxic mortgages on a populace the people at the helm of solving global inequality are hollywood celebrities criminal bankers and giddy but kissing journalists so don't be fooled by all the hype because davos is really nothing more than a bunch of one percenters up in the alps laughing that you'll never have a golden ticket to the party. well you guys it's friday as usual i've been inund

melissa: jamie dimon, government is after him. people have you in their sights.hey have their guns out. don't you have to have overinflated eagan go to live through that. >> live through that. >> not overinflated ego. i would not use that word. you have to have backbone of steel to deal with what jamie dimon has, that's a backbone. because you're willing to sacrifice everything for a cause greater than yourself. i know it sound totally conttadictory but it is true. sometimes in order to be more full of yourself, in order to have stronger backbone you have to be willing to sacrifice yourself. very biblical as a matter of fact. >> sometimes confidence and ego get confused, i really do. i think jamie dimon, hh is there and has to have confidence and ego says by the way i'm right, i don't care what you say. i will persevere. melissa: that goes against what we were saying before. i'm right, i will persevere is on opposite what we said at beginning, taking everybody's opinions and i'm taking last word because i'm right, dammit. >> no ego at all. melissa: just we're out

morgan chase jamie dimon he recently denounced to coin predicting that it's going to fail right now because it is still an experimental phase similar to what the internet was in the early ninety's what's your response in diamonds prediction. it's very difficult for people who have lived their entire life in a hierarchical system especially at the top of a hierarchical system and gain the benefits that come from that including the ability to exhibit rent seeking behaviors and to avoid prosecution for fraud that would put other people in jail a long time ago and then be able to sit down and have a buddy buddy conversation with the secretary of treasury without anyone blinking an eye when they sit down and discuss competitive technologies and chuckle about them i don't think jamie dimon really understands bitcoin but that's not surprising it's not his role to understand the competing technologies because really he's in such a comfortable position whereby he can just receive seventy billion dollars of free money from the fed in the form of corporate welfare and doesn't have to compete and you s

we're going to have jamie dimon on the program tomorrow. the settlements they've made over the last month or two, what do you think of that? >> i think firstly the decision to buy into washington mutual, which both helped the american financial system was made with the support of -- the request of the u.s. government. was both a bold decision, generally a positive decision but had consequences. you picked up a lot of stuff along with those acquisitions. i think that's a lot of what j.p.'s living with. listen, jamie's a great guy. we need strong financial institutions in the u.s., no question about it. we should be celebrating when our banks are doing well. >> what about this whole situation in china? i think morgan stanley may be looked at this in hiring princelings in government. >> hiring somebody who's the child of somebody in government is not a bad thing. there are a lot of talented people that come from those families. all you've got to do is have the appropriate conflict controls in an organization, which all of us face all the time.

. >> did you see how much money jamie dimon made last year?little bit. >> $20 million last year. >> that is $20 million more than i made. >> is that like a commission? about ceooing to talk pay and how it compares to athletes and actors next. ♪ >> a big selloff on this friday afternoon. the dow is off 1.6%. the s&p getting hammered as well. concerns about global selloff on the heels of the china data. >> we talked about argentina earlier. lots going on. lots to cover. right now, executive compensation. >> someone is doing well. his name is jamie diamond. he got a big paycheck last year. raisean gave him a 74% bringing his compensation up. it is a lot of money. but interestingly, it is not as much as some people in other sectors. ., for downey, jr example. $75 million. did you have any idea he made that much money? >> do you know how much" ironman 3" grossed? on, there are 100 other guys that can do what he did. looking at a franchise with actors who are wildly paid, it is not because they have a board of directors who are buddies giving them a

try as jpmorgan chase might, it is not, a $2 million fine for jamie dimon in the very rough. regulators were clueless about madoff for years. that is $20 billion total of finds and penalty that j.p. morgaa alone will pay to get the messes from mortgages to madoff behind them. financial institutions of all sorts face all sorts of finds. a reason to hold back? to attorney randy zellon said fighting the government is a losing battle, a lot of still fighting. you are not an investor, if you were a betting man, you would not bet on bank stocks. >> i would not bet on me being unseemly rich. neil: i am saying melissa frances rich. >> i am randy zellon rich. when you have done is you set the bar. you set market, somebody smarter than i said, it is no different when you pay robby cano $24 million a year, that is new gold standard. bad news for banks you paid $2 million on madoff, if you get into trouble again or similar, you are not going to payless, you go to pay more. good news, you get to to live it fight another day, nobody goes to jail. neil: that might be case with this 5 year p

we saw jamie dimon. potentially 50 billions of more settlements.ttlements with the government. what do you make of what's going on. >> i'm a little bit close to the coal face here. frankly, look, i don't love spending my life dealing with legacy issues but it's part of what we -- it's part of our responsibility. we have to deal with it. we have to sort out the past and more importantly, learn from the past. >> what do you make of the fact that the government has gone more after the corporations than individuals? i would argue individuals ultimately make the decisions, good or otherwise? >> they do. but at the end of the day, listen, having been a focus of this myself, i assure you that people -- people examined these issues very, very, very enthusiastically. and you know, you still have to have a bad intent. again, taking away -- as a commentator on these things, there are people who made mistakes. everyone made a lot of mistakes. the whole world was overleverage. at the end of the day, a mistake is not necessarily a crime. they still have to have

this has been quite a year for jamie dimon and jpmorgan chase.you said he's been opening up the checkbook and settling billions of dollars with regulator, with the government from everything to turning a blind eye to bernie madoff to the mortgage dacisaster. all kinds. $20 billion in fines. so what is the board going to do according to the "new york times". board will give him a raise. last year they docked his pay to $11.5 million. he was the highest paid banker in 2011 in part $23 million in compensation because he led the bank through a financial crisis. then the next year, that trading problem happened in london. big, big pay cut the board gave him for that and now according to the "new york times" after a heated meeting on the board they want to give him a raise to congratulate him, to reward him for leading the bank through a very tough year with all those settlements. interesting as well he was quoted at davos, that big meeting of the elites he was quoted as saying the government's pursuit of the bank after these settlements was unfair. he

should jamie dimon be replaced? >> i come from a background of bankers. -- bankruptcy. bankruptcy is about families that have been hit by hard times, but it is also about corporations, big corporations. what happens when they hit a hard sell? when they get be organized in new money comes into financial situations, the are a lot of conditions that are put on their. -- on that. among the conditions are that there has to be business plans, a showing that the financial institution is not going to keep up its old ways. that often means that the ceo is replaced. >> in this case, the ceo should be replaced? >> the real question is, do you have someone who has shown that they understand there were problems in the past and that they have a different plan going forward? what jpmorgan and other financial institutions have done is they have continued to get bigger and load up more risk. >> do you think that the ceo of j.p. morgan has that understanding? should he be replaced? >> i'm waiting for him to demonstrate. >> but he hasn't so far? >> not so far. he has had a long time. >> t

jamie dimon is at the top of this, too, right? >> i have not seen jamie dimon yet.g up by sleigh. that would be the canadian thing. >> that is certainly one visual image. >> it would be. they have to be sensitive about landing on helicopters. so 2006. >> tom keene in domino's, switzerland -- davos, switzerland. new economic data, lower by one point right now, s&p futures are at 18.37. >> this is "bloomberg surveillance." mckee, with scarlet fu. our guest host for the hour, craig moffett. and of course, tom keene, as you saw, in davos. >> we will be rejoining him shortly, but we want to talk about something that is taking place here, today. the u.s. will be auctioning off where -- airwaves for the first time in five years. the auction is expected to raise one $.6 billion. what is interesting is to is not planning to bid. would thinkt, you that the big telecom players, at&t, verizon, t-mobile, sprint, would be very invested, but they are sitting out. >> there is this consensus view that all spectrum is good steprum, but you have to back and question that sort of simpl

them assuming this happens, is --re going to be is upward this uproar over jamie dimon? this is a lot more dough for a lot less work. >> selling time warner cable and getting the right price is rob marcus's point. >> there is a reason bank phyllis -- these and vilification has been on bank ceos. media ceos are-- seen as providing entertainment. is cool. i don't know. thank you all. that was a great conversation. we even got to talk about some rock stars. >> president obama prepares to tell congress he is willing to go it alone. that story is next. >> it will be -- it was the interview that lift up twitter last night. emily chang spoke exclusively with tom perkins about those comments comparing an attack on the rich to the holocaust. we will highlight those comments in a minute. all abouttch interviews streaming live and on demand on apple tv. them a president obama is hoping for a reset tonight. peter cookrespondent has more on his strategy from capitol hill. to talkhe is going about the things he believes he can to without congress approving it. what is everyone make of

jpmorgan, jamie dimon is saying revenue growth will definitely take a hit as we go through the processtion. i'm not not sure it is clear all the legal issues are behind them. there are still some major issues hanging over them. what do you say? >> there are still some major issues although think we separate that from the revenues. the derisking part i want to talk about. on their release they talked about their fortress balance sheet. this is more up emac's alley but i don't know what is on the balance sheet a ruling in 2009 reversed fortunes of banks almost went back to the make believe thing. other than that my issue on this why do we continue to bail these banks out? when they print these kind of numbers on quarterly basis why do they get so much help from the federal reserve? why when the you know what hits the fan they come first and main street comes second? tracy: i feel like forever you don't know the skeletons in the closet on these balance sheets. >> that's true. charles make as good point, jpmorgan's balance sheet is about the size of france, 2.3 trillion, tangible common eq

jpmorgan giving jamie dimon a 74% raise to $20 million last year. the compensation package included $18.5 million in restricted stock. 800,00 signed up for private healthcare. the total enrollment in the affordable care act is 3 million people. those are some of the top headlines. back to you. >> music's big weekend is here, almost. the grammys will be bestowed on sunday evening. who will win and who will watch? streaming media companies are delivering music to listeners. joining me are two gentlemen who listen to the fortunes of the music industry. we have the chief executive and founder of stadiumred joining us from los angeles, jon erlichman, set the stage. do you have a tux and tickets? >> i go when they invite me to perform. i did not get that honor. there are always last-minute announcements. maybe they will tell me i can be one of the announcers. no. what am i talking about? are you kidding me? this is one of the hottest tickets in town. i am glad you talked about the streaming services. a lot of the acts that are talked about are the ones pe

sandra: jamie dimon hoping to work with retailers for the future credit card reaches.hman on the effort to turn a tiny island off detroit into a free-market utopia. welcome back. how is everything? there's nothing like being your own boss! and customers are really liking your flat rate shipping. fedex one rate. really makes my life easier. maybe a promotion is in order. good news. i got a new title. and a raise? management couldn't make that happen. [ male announcer ] introducing fedex one rate. simple, flat rate shipping with the reliability o fedex. open to innovation. open to ambition. open to boldids. that's why n york has a new plan -- dozens of tax free zones all across the state. move here, expand here, e and pay no taxes for ten years... we're new york. if there's something that creates more jobs, and ows more businesses... we're en to it. start a tax-free business at startup-ny.com. [ cellphones beeping ] ♪ [ cellphone ngs ] hello? [ male announcer ] over 12,000 financial advisors. good, good. good over $700 billion dollars in assets under care. let me just pu

ceo jamie dimon says the 300 they have taken on in their operations, retail, and technology divisionsell trained pool of talent. >> jamie dimon: year up gives them six months of intensive training to teach them basics. so, by the time they come here, they kind of know what a job's going to be like, they know what an internship is going to be like, and they can kind of just keep on growing in the job. >> safer: has that investment paid off for you? >> dimon: it has. one of the biggest expenses for a company is hiring people, or particularly... in particular, hiring the wrong people. so if you end up with great, talented people who end up being permanent, full-time here, it pays off as an investment. we... i think it's important that programs like this have an end goal that's not... it's... it's enlightened, it's not just philanthropy. if it's just philanthropy, they tend to fall apart over time. >> we are asking you to acquire a skill so you can go work in corporate america. >> safer: a key to year up's success, chertavian, says is a relentless focus on networking and understanding off

. >>> willing to pay a settlement, as much as jamie dimon wants to put these messes behind them and the bank, they still face years of court battle, the book . dick, "9 guardians of prosperity." i think if you walk down the streets of new york and show this to ten people and say this is why america needs the banks, nine out of ten would call you crazy. aren't the banks the one who took us down this rabbit hole that ended up being the financial crisis? >> i don't think so. they were a big part in creating the bad things, 9 wrong things that occurred, but they didn't create the financial crisis. that's the problem. if i did gone to the core reasons of the financial crisis we might come up with real solutions of what happened. but we chose not to do that. we chose to focus on the banks. by chosing on the banks we passed on a lot of laws and regulations that has really harmed the american consumer. >> in your sense what is the core reason? >> the core reason is we had an enormous trade deficit in the united states which resulted to $1.25 billion per day for decades being sent to other count

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the board clearly doesn't think it's jamie dimon's fault, it's unclear whether everybody shares that , because that $20 billion in fines and settlements didn't come of jamie diamond's pockets, it came out of the pockets of shareholders. by the way if you have a 401k or something that invests broodly, you are probably a shareholder. but wall street is a little tone deaf. >> i have met him, and you are right he is a likable guy. meanwhile the stock is up, is d diemon's raise, a signal that they haven't been hurt. some would say they are not so much crackdowns? >> well, i guess that sort of speaks to the whole too big to fail thing, if you can pay out $20 billion in fines and settlements, and still be a very healthy bank, i guess that is it. others might say you got us out of that. we're kind of through most of this. and under jamie diamond's solid leadership, we have gotten through this. he is directly at odds with the views of most americans who are polled on the issue, while many americans don't wanti end less government involvement in their lives they do want regulation over the bank

and how is jamie dimon still the ceo? >> well, jamie dimon is very popular in wall street.is bank put aside $23 billion just to pay different -- they expect settlements of about a dozen investigations that are still on going. so on wall street they view his profitability. that's the mark by which he is judged. and jp morgan if you put aside the settlements is a highly profitable bank, the biggest bank in america. that is how he keeps his job. >> let's take out the intense admiration on wall street for jamie dimon. what about in our halls of justice? >> well, he has had to come into the justice department, very rare. you see the attorney general brought in jp morgan ceo dimen to do face-to-face negotiations in recent months. i think one of the things that keeps coming back is the last time the big banks that failed in 2008 was lehman brothers. a lot of people in government don't want to see that repeated. they don't want to see the chaos that that caused in the u.s. economy and global economy. so you have the real fix that everybody is in. they want to be tough on the banks