jamie gorelick: magnificent. [laughter] general hayden: words like carpet bombing are offensive to anybody who really knows what that means. >> jamie, you want to go with brilliant? [laughter] jamie gorelick: secretary clinton put some really good ideas on the table. a very important speech, attended by people who were listening. it barely gets any coverage because real ideas are not permeating in the season that we're in. you can call it silly season, but it is very destructive. general hayden: it made america less safe. >> this gentleman in the front. >> my question is the unintended consequences of our actions. even the way we are shaping the debate. with all due respect, the mention of the fact of san bernardino and paris and madrid and even mumbai, every day hundreds of muslims are being killed by the criminals in afghanistan and iraq and syria and pakistan. that is not mentioned. my question is this question of .he debate taking place it is helping isis. that was a point everyone has been making. let me just

in d.c., we had jamie gorelick, who is a partner at wilmer hale and a former deputy attorney general of the u.s. department of justice. almost a fixture here at the council on foreign relations, we have general michael hayden, principal of the chertoff group and the former director of the cia and the national security agency. we will have questions about encryption and other things like that for him. ok, and we will start here in new york. bonner, let's talk about the difference between large-scale attacks and the more recent attacks we have seen in paris and in particular, san bernardino. what kind of countermeasures can ameliorate something like san bernardino? robert: we've had two different kinds of attacks that taken place in the recent past. the ones for this program was the large-scale attack in paris. one of the assessment that i think we had already made but should make is that isis is engaged in asymmetrical warfare against the countries that it its enemies. they will not just a within its territory in syria and iraq. it is not content to use the internet to help radicalize