jamil jaffer is a leading aclu lawyer. these people are all very impressive. they disagree fundamentally about many things but it is hard not to respect each of them when you listen to them. what they say the nsa and its practices are still needed? they think a lot of the practices are unconstitutional or dangerous or bad for our privacy or not helpful to national security. jule brenner and senator feinstein would disagree on all of those points. host: as far as your conversation with them -- when you take a look at specific programs what did you talk about and what are the concerns he -- what are the concerns? leaked aowden has hundred programs at least. the ones that generated the most controversy is the metadata program, where the nsa has been secretly collecting the phone records of basically all americans all the time. it turns out not quite all. they are missing the cell phone records. the idea is they are not listening to your phone calls but their computers no everybody you are calling. who you are calling, when you are calling, where you roughly were

the aclu's jami jamil jaffer exs that the memo redefiance the word "immense" in a way that deprives the word of its ordinary meaning. when we talk about due process, it is important to understand where due process can occur. due process has to occur in the open. it has to occur in an adversarial process. if you don't have a lawyer on your side who is your advocate, you can't have due process. due process cannot occur in secret, but it also can't occur in one branch of government. this is a fundamental misconception of the president. the president believes, with regard to either privacy in the 4th amendment or to killing american citizens and with regard to the 5th amendment, he believes that if he has some lawyers review this process, that that that is due process. this is appalling because this has nothing to do with due process and can in no way be seen as due process. some have said, well, this is a judicial opinion. barron has written an opinion. he's justified the president's actions. people have also said this with regard to the n.s.a. spying case. 15 judges have approved of it. w

jamil jaffer is a leading aclu lawyer. these people are all very impressive. they disagree fundamentally about many things but it is hard not to respect each of them when you listen to them. what they say the nsa and its practices are still needed? they think a lot of the practices are unconstitutional or dangerous or bad for our privacy or not helpful to national security. jule brenner and senator feinstein would disagree on all of those points. host: as far as your conversation with them -- when you take a look at specific programs what did you talk about and what are the concerns he -- what are the concerns? leaked aowden has hundred programs at least. the ones that generated the most controversy is the metadata program, where the nsa has been secretly collecting the phone records of basically all americans all the time. it turns out not quite all. they are missing the cell phone records. the idea is they are not listening to your phone calls but their computers no everybody you are calling. who you are calling, when you are calling, where you roughly were